Grooming Question

Most XC trails I have skied on so far are two tracks. Last weekend a friend
and I were guests at a private ski resort near Gaylord, MI and the XC trails
were groomed differently. They were about 8 feet across and had no tracks
(or deep grooves) in them at all. Rather, they looked as if someone had
dragged a piece of corrugated siding across them. They were wonderful,
powdery and enabled me to actually snowplow to a stop, something I find
almost impossible to do when skiing in prepared tracks.

Why are trails groomed in tracks? Or why weren't these? Are there different
grooming methods for different styles of skiing? I could see a herringbone
pattern on the snow in front of us as we skied, as if someone was maybe
skate-skiing there before us (maybe?). I liked those wide, track-less
trails.

June

Ooh-ooh! Me first!

OK, the wide trail without tracks is a skating trail and those marks you saw
were from ski skaters. There!

The corrugation comes from the machine trailsetter but maybe it also helps skis
run nicer (I forget).

When you say that two-tracks are your usual trail, do you mean plain old boony
road for ATVs and such? They're fine for touring.

Classic trails are sometimes narrower and have ski tracks set by machine into
them, sometimes two sets abreast.

Most ski areas that have skating trails also have classic trails.

Trails can get pretty WIDE when they try to fit both kinds of skiing on one
trail, but that's OK. I suppose 9-12' would do it. One set of classic tracks
allows a trail only, what, 40" wide. More cozy.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ...
... offering Vordenberg's XC ski tales in "Momentum"! ...
... "The Recumbent Bicycle": the only book about these bikes! ...
... Rudloe's "Potluck": true-life story of workingclass smuggling! ...
... with radical novels coming up via LiteraryRevolution.com! ...
... music! ... articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW! 800-763-6923

Hi June-
Congrats, you have just encountered your first
"skating lane". Yes, the trails you were on are
groomed using a somewhat more complicated version of a
piece of siding. You can usually see the machines
(snow-cats) parked near the garage of the maintainance
area at whatever resort you're at. If you can find a
groomer(the person, not the machine) around (and awake
during daylight hours), they would probably do a show
and tell for you-- they are generally
underappreciated, yet essential personnel for us track
skiiers.

As far as your question as to whether the "trails are
groomed in the tracks": more accurately, the tracks
are groomed into the trail. The reason for the tracks
is that for diagonal striding ("kick 'n' glide",
"classic skiing"-- you will see these terms freqently
in RSN), the tracks help keep those skinny little skis
from wandering from the straight and narrow. This in
turn helps you to take those big, weight-shifting
strides that are characteristic of classic ski
technique. The flat part between the tracks (or maybe
to one side if the tracks are only groomed on one side
of the trail) is known as the "skating lane", and is
where you skate ski. That is what made that
"herringbone pattern" that you saw. You skate on the
part without the tracks because tracks will trip you
up when you skate (generally-- no one argue with me
here, OK? ;-)

In terms of grooming methods for these types of
trails: Generally, the groomer packs (or "grooms")
the entire trail width with the corrugated siding
thingy, then comes back with a separate machine (or
has a separate piece of equipment attached to the
gizmo that holds the corrugated siding thingy) that
sets the classic tracks down into the groomed trail.
If you hang around nordic areas long enough, you will
get an opportunity to see this being done-
particularly if you hang around towards the end of the
day, which is often when grooming is done if it is
done during daylight hours at all.

Comprende?

Chris Cline
SLC, UT
Where it's been a long week, even though it's only
Monday!

PS-- you didn't see anyone skate skiing on the trails
when you were there? Must have been a *very* private
resort!!

--- Diva wrote:
Most XC trails I have skied on so far are two
tracks. Last weekend a friend
and I were guests at a private ski resort near
Gaylord, MI and the XC trails
were groomed differently. They were about 8 feet
across and had no tracks
(or deep grooves) in them at all. Rather, they
looked as if someone had
dragged a piece of corrugated siding across them.
They were wonderful,
powdery and enabled me to actually snowplow to a
stop, something I find
almost impossible to do when skiing in prepared
tracks.

Why are trails groomed in tracks? Or why weren't
these? Are there different
grooming methods for different styles of skiing? I
could see a herringbone
pattern on the snow in front of us as we skied, as
if someone was maybe
skate-skiing there before us (maybe?). I liked those
wide, track-less
trails.

June








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http://mail.yahoo.com

Thanks Jeff. Yeah I was talking about tracks set by the machine that are two
sets abreast. That's what I usually see. The resort where we were (Otsego)
had just the skating trail. I really liked it.

June

"Jeff Potter" wrote in message
.. .
Ooh-ooh! Me first!

OK, the wide trail without tracks is a skating trail and those marks you
saw
were from ski skaters. There!

The corrugation comes from the machine trailsetter but maybe it also helps
skis
run nicer (I forget).

When you say that two-tracks are your usual trail, do you mean plain old
boony
road for ATVs and such? They're fine for touring.

Classic trails are sometimes narrower and have ski tracks set by machine
into
them, sometimes two sets abreast.

Most ski areas that have skating trails also have classic trails.

Trails can get pretty WIDE when they try to fit both kinds of skiing on
one
trail, but that's OK. I suppose 9-12' would do it. One set of classic
tracks
allows a trail only, what, 40" wide. More cozy.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ...
... offering Vordenberg's XC ski tales in "Momentum"! ...
... "The Recumbent Bicycle": the only book about these bikes! ...
... Rudloe's "Potluck": true-life story of workingclass smuggling! ...
... with radical novels coming up via LiteraryRevolution.com! ...
... music! ... articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW! 800-763-6923

There were no classic trails there -- just the ski skating kind. No we
didn't see anyone skate skiing -- though we did see the tracks of someone --
just one who had as I mentioned. We didn't see ANY other XC skiiers -- just
one lady snowshoeing. There were downhill skiers mostly. It was the Otsego
Resort: http://www.otsegoclub.com/ and I could never EVER afford to belong
to it. A friend of mine from work knows someone in Gaylord that is a member.

June

"Chris Cline" wrote in message
o.com...
Hi June-
Congrats, you have just encountered your first
"skating lane". Yes, the trails you were on are
groomed using a somewhat more complicated version of a
piece of siding. You can usually see the machines
(snow-cats) parked near the garage of the maintainance
area at whatever resort you're at. If you can find a
groomer(the person, not the machine) around (and awake
during daylight hours), they would probably do a show
and tell for you-- they are generally
underappreciated, yet essential personnel for us track
skiiers.

As far as your question as to whether the "trails are
groomed in the tracks": more accurately, the tracks
are groomed into the trail. The reason for the tracks
is that for diagonal striding ("kick 'n' glide",
"classic skiing"-- you will see these terms freqently
in RSN), the tracks help keep those skinny little skis
from wandering from the straight and narrow. This in
turn helps you to take those big, weight-shifting
strides that are characteristic of classic ski
technique. The flat part between the tracks (or maybe
to one side if the tracks are only groomed on one side
of the trail) is known as the "skating lane", and is
where you skate ski. That is what made that
"herringbone pattern" that you saw. You skate on the
part without the tracks because tracks will trip you
up when you skate (generally-- no one argue with me
here, OK? ;-)

In terms of grooming methods for these types of
trails: Generally, the groomer packs (or "grooms")
the entire trail width with the corrugated siding
thingy, then comes back with a separate machine (or
has a separate piece of equipment attached to the
gizmo that holds the corrugated siding thingy) that
sets the classic tracks down into the groomed trail.
If you hang around nordic areas long enough, you will
get an opportunity to see this being done-
particularly if you hang around towards the end of the
day, which is often when grooming is done if it is
done during daylight hours at all.

Comprende?

Chris Cline
SLC, UT
Where it's been a long week, even though it's only
Monday!

PS-- you didn't see anyone skate skiing on the trails
when you were there? Must have been a *very* private
resort!!

--- Diva wrote:
Most XC trails I have skied on so far are two
tracks. Last weekend a friend
and I were guests at a private ski resort near
Gaylord, MI and the XC trails
were groomed differently. They were about 8 feet
across and had no tracks
(or deep grooves) in them at all. Rather, they
looked as if someone had
dragged a piece of corrugated siding across them.
They were wonderful,
powdery and enabled me to actually snowplow to a
stop, something I find
almost impossible to do when skiing in prepared
tracks.

Why are trails groomed in tracks? Or why weren't
these? Are there different
grooming methods for different styles of skiing? I
could see a herringbone
pattern on the snow in front of us as we skied, as
if someone was maybe
skate-skiing there before us (maybe?). I liked those
wide, track-less
trails.

June








__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com

Well, those were my ski tracks on my regular ski area !!
Yes, the Otsego club grooms 25km of perfect corduroy on some major hills,
flats, and generally great terrain - unfortunately ONLY for skating though.
These would be GREAT classic trails too. 20 feet wide and hard packed.

JK
Gaylord

"Diva" wrote in message
...
Most XC trails I have skied on so far are two tracks. Last weekend a
friend
and I were guests at a private ski resort near Gaylord, MI and the XC
trails
were groomed differently. They were about 8 feet across and had no tracks
(or deep grooves) in them at all. Rather, they looked as if someone had
dragged a piece of corrugated siding across them. They were wonderful,
powdery and enabled me to actually snowplow to a stop, something I find
almost impossible to do when skiing in prepared tracks.

Why are trails groomed in tracks? Or why weren't these? Are there
different
grooming methods for different styles of skiing? I could see a herringbone
pattern on the snow in front of us as we skied, as if someone was maybe
skate-skiing there before us (maybe?). I liked those wide, track-less
trails.

June

Looks like that was a downhill area and they took the big groomer out
on the nordic trails. They work pretty much the same, a tiller and a
squasher, sort of like a zamboni machine for the snow.


"Diva" wrote in message ...
Most XC trails I have skied on so far are two tracks. Last weekend a friend
and I were guests at a private ski resort near Gaylord, MI and the XC trails
were groomed differently. They were about 8 feet across and had no tracks
(or deep grooves) in them at all. Rather, they looked as if someone had
dragged a piece of corrugated siding across them. They were wonderful,
powdery and enabled me to actually snowplow to a stop, something I find
almost impossible to do when skiing in prepared tracks.

Why are trails groomed in tracks? Or why weren't these? Are there different
grooming methods for different styles of skiing? I could see a herringbone
pattern on the snow in front of us as we skied, as if someone was maybe
skate-skiing there before us (maybe?). I liked those wide, track-less
trails.

June

yup, that's how they do it...
We get 20 inches of powder and they pack it rock solid for skating... yeeee
haaa
JK

"John Roden" wrote in message
om...
Looks like that was a downhill area and they took the big groomer out
on the nordic trails. They work pretty much the same, a tiller and a
squasher, sort of like a zamboni machine for the snow.


"Diva" wrote in message
...
Most XC trails I have skied on so far are two tracks. Last weekend a
friend
and I were guests at a private ski resort near Gaylord, MI and the XC
trails
were groomed differently. They were about 8 feet across and had no
tracks
(or deep grooves) in them at all. Rather, they looked as if someone had
dragged a piece of corrugated siding across them. They were wonderful,
powdery and enabled me to actually snowplow to a stop, something I find
almost impossible to do when skiing in prepared tracks.

Why are trails groomed in tracks? Or why weren't these? Are there
different
grooming methods for different styles of skiing? I could see a
herringbone
pattern on the snow in front of us as we skied, as if someone was maybe
skate-skiing there before us (maybe?). I liked those wide, track-less
trails.

June

Hi JK. You make pretty tracks. s You say those are ONLY for skating. So
were we wrong to go out there and classic ski on them because the guy at the
desk just told us to go on ahead, and we did? We liked it. Hope we didn't
mess up.

June

"32 degrees" wrote in message
...
Well, those were my ski tracks on my regular ski area !!
Yes, the Otsego club grooms 25km of perfect corduroy on some major hills,
flats, and generally great terrain - unfortunately ONLY for skating
though.
These would be GREAT classic trails too. 20 feet wide and hard packed.

JK
Gaylord

"Diva" wrote in message
...
Most XC trails I have skied on so far are two tracks. Last weekend a
friend
and I were guests at a private ski resort near Gaylord, MI and the XC
trails
were groomed differently. They were about 8 feet across and had no
tracks
(or deep grooves) in them at all. Rather, they looked as if someone had
dragged a piece of corrugated siding across them. They were wonderful,
powdery and enabled me to actually snowplow to a stop, something I find
almost impossible to do when skiing in prepared tracks.

Why are trails groomed in tracks? Or why weren't these? Are there
different
grooming methods for different styles of skiing? I could see a
herringbone
pattern on the snow in front of us as we skied, as if someone was maybe
skate-skiing there before us (maybe?). I liked those wide, track-less
trails.

June

That is an absolutely fabulous place, JK. Do you have to belong to it to use
the nordic trails? My buddy up there said I could go with him whenever I
want, but I was just wondering if it's open for anyone to use those trails?
I'm guessing not.

June

"32 degrees" wrote in message
...
yup, that's how they do it...
We get 20 inches of powder and they pack it rock solid for skating...
yeeee
haaa
JK

"John Roden" wrote in message
om...
Looks like that was a downhill area and they took the big groomer out
on the nordic trails. They work pretty much the same, a tiller and a
squasher, sort of like a zamboni machine for the snow.


"Diva" wrote in message
...
Most XC trails I have skied on so far are two tracks. Last weekend a
friend
and I were guests at a private ski resort near Gaylord, MI and the XC
trails
were groomed differently. They were about 8 feet across and had no
tracks
(or deep grooves) in them at all. Rather, they looked as if someone
had
dragged a piece of corrugated siding across them. They were wonderful,
powdery and enabled me to actually snowplow to a stop, something I
find
almost impossible to do when skiing in prepared tracks.

Why are trails groomed in tracks? Or why weren't these? Are there
different
grooming methods for different styles of skiing? I could see a
herringbone
pattern on the snow in front of us as we skied, as if someone was
maybe
skate-skiing there before us (maybe?). I liked those wide, track-less
trails.

June