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#1
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Telemark anyone?
I've been a groomed trail skier for quite a while, and started BC
skiing and mountaineering a few seasons back. I've considered myself a good skier (on trails), but I feel somewhat incapacitated going downhill in deep powder, with a backpack. A thin crust on top is even worse - the one not strong enough to hold you (with a 60 lb backpack especially). Basically, a snowplow and a hockey stop just don't work in deep powder and in narrow spaces between trees and rocks. What works then? Telemark? Do I need "heavy" free heel telemark boots and super-fat shaped skis for telemarking? I've been BC skiing in Salomon BC boots (essentially beefed up skating boots) and Fischer E99 skis. My mountaineering friends laugh at my gear (saying my skis are too narrow and long, and the boots are too light), but I like these boots and skis b/c they are lightweight, I don't get blisters, and I get great kick and glide. But downhills remain difficult. Will I get more control going downhill with a backpack if I get heavier duty free heel boots and fatter skis, or can I somehow learn to Telemark (my spell check suggests "telemarketing") with Salomon BCs and the E99 skis? |
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#2
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Telemark anyone?
On 11/23/2011 3:02 PM, runcyclexcski wrote:
I've been a groomed trail skier for quite a while, and started BC skiing and mountaineering a few seasons back. I've considered myself a good skier (on trails), but I feel somewhat incapacitated going downhill in deep powder, with a backpack. A thin crust on top is even worse - the one not strong enough to hold you (with a 60 lb backpack especially). Basically, a snowplow and a hockey stop just don't work in deep powder and in narrow spaces between trees and rocks. What works then? Telemark? Do I need "heavy" free heel telemark boots and super-fat shaped skis for telemarking? I've been BC skiing in Salomon BC boots (essentially beefed up skating boots) and Fischer E99 skis. My mountaineering friends laugh at my gear (saying my skis are too narrow and long, and the boots are too light), but I like these boots and skis b/c they are lightweight, I don't get blisters, and I get great kick and glide. But downhills remain difficult. Will I get more control going downhill with a backpack if I get heavier duty free heel boots and fatter skis, or can I somehow learn to Telemark (my spell check suggests "telemarketing") with Salomon BCs and the E99 skis? I can't say what you need for the steep downhills, but I had a pair of wide-ish Fischer Outabounds that had rather poor glide (kick tended to be OK). The bigger Telemarks suffer from much less glide because of the width and (usually) much less camber (sometimes none!) to keep the grip zone up. Of course heavy backpack loads make any ski harder to use; maybe you must zig-zag more often to go down. |
#3
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Telemark anyone?
In article , runcyclexcski wrote:
I've been a groomed trail skier for quite a while, and started BC skiing and mountaineering a few seasons back. I've considered myself a good skier (on trails), but I feel somewhat incapacitated going downhill in deep powder, with a backpack. A thin crust on top is even worse - the one not strong enough to hold you (with a 60 lb backpack especially). Basically, a snowplow and a hockey stop just don't work in deep powder and in narrow spaces between trees and rocks. What works then? Telemark? Do I need "heavy" free heel telemark boots and super-fat shaped skis for telemarking? I've been BC skiing in Salomon BC boots (essentially beefed up skating boots) and Fischer E99 skis. My mountaineering friends laugh at my gear (saying my skis are too narrow and long, and the boots are too light), but I like these boots and skis b/c they are lightweight, I don't get blisters, and I get great kick and glide. But downhills remain difficult. Will I get more control going downhill with a backpack if I get heavier duty free heel boots and fatter skis, or can I somehow learn to Telemark (my spell check suggests "telemarketing") with Salomon BCs and the E99 skis? When I'm skiing obstacle filled runs, I visualize the smoothest path I can ski between all the obstacles and do that. When my imagined path needs turns too sharp for me to do, I'll look for a run-out path that turns up-hill and slows me down without resorting to snowploughs or sitz-mark stops. The skis I use most days are Fischer E99s mounted with NNN-BC bindings and beefed up racing boots, which is a similar set-up to yours. As you know, they are great for kick and glide but I can also telemark on them. All it takes is enough practice, starting with wide, easy slopes and progressing to harder stuff. My telemark turns work best when I am going fast enough that I don't need to force my skis around, instead just press them towards where I want them to go and let the skis take me there. This works well on what passes for powder here and Spring corn. I still can't ski breakable crust. On really bad days I use the always reliable kick turn + traverse to get me down. HTH. -- K.A. Moylan Canberra, Australia Ski Club: http://www.cccsc.asn.au kamoylan at netspeed dot com dot au |
#4
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Telemark anyone?
K.A. Moylan wrote:
I still can't ski breakable crust. On really bad days I use the always reliable kick turn + traverse to get me down. Nobody can. :-( The best you can do in breakable crust conditions is to get out of them. It is sometimes possible to stay on top of such crust if you keep both skis close together and push yourself along very carefully with your poles. I.e. no stopping, no single-ski weighting. Terje -- - Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching" |
#5
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Telemark anyone?
runcyclexcski wrote:
heel boots and fatter skis, or can I somehow learn to Telemark (my spell check suggests "telemarketing") with Salomon BCs and the E99 skis? Yes you can! I taught myself Telemark turns around 1980, sking with low soft boots and competition xc skis on an ungroomed slalom hill with 30 cm fresh powder. The key is that using gear like this forces you to keep your weight on your toes, a bit more on the front than the back ski. It is a _lot_ of fun when it works. :-) Terje -- - Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching" |
#6
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Telemark anyone?
the bigger Telemarks suffer from much less glide because of the
width and (usually) much less camber (sometimes none!) to keep the grip zone up I've noticed that with the wide "mainstream" backcountry skis The first pair I BC skied on in the Sierras were the Karhu 10th Mountain. Those things had no camber, weighed a ton and had no glide at all. I guess the whole point of "mainstream" backcountry skiing is downhill part... the kick and glide part and the uphill part are mere unavoidable inconveniences you have to go through to ski down a mountain. The E99s work magic in kick and glide. |
#7
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Telemark anyone?
On Nov 24, 1:27*pm, runcyclexcski wrote:
the bigger Telemarks suffer from much less glide because of the width and (usually) much less camber (sometimes none!) to keep the grip zone up I've noticed that with the wide "mainstream" backcountry skis The first pair I BC skied on in the Sierras were the Karhu 10th Mountain. Those things had no camber, weighed a ton and had no glide at all. I guess the whole point of "mainstream" backcountry skiing is downhill part... the kick and glide part and the uphill part are mere unavoidable inconveniences you have to go through to ski down a mountain. The E99s work magic in kick and glide. It's a continuum. BC covers the gamut. Today's short wide skis sometimes have nowax fishscales that let you easily hike back up. They're not made for kick'n'glide but for earning your turns, up'n'down -- and are great for that. But there are also lighter, narrower short tour skis with metal edges -- Fischer has the new Spider or whatever it's called -- that let you turn in moderate conditions with a bit o' iceiness and also let you do kick'n'glide. Your long E99's are dandy for moderate loads in moderate conditions and give better kick'n'glide than the shorts but don't turn as good. Anyway, for every terrain there's a suitable ski. Then there's you... Going to a groomed area with your desired gear and getting familiar with it there is a great idea. If you're a real rookie, start without a pack and on easy slopes, etc. It's a whole new skill but readily learned. Heck, you might be wearing a pack and on blue runs and little bumps by end of the day. I'd think that quite a lot of crust is skiable -- ya gotta use jump turns. The new short skis help with that, especially on tight trails. Longer skis basically need more room. Match gear to situation and conditions. Of course at some point crust is nasty for everyone but it can be awfully thick and heavy BC stuff will blast thru it, but again it won't be kick'n'glide gear. NNN-BC is great stuff -- but probably steep narrow action -- especially in crust -- and with 60 lb pack -- is overdoing it. My expert pals can ski basically anything nicely with NNN-BC and light short 60mm skis -- but they only haul 15 lb pack. And they are extreme tele monsters on their heavier stuff. So a mere mortal on the same gear with 60 lb pack isn't going to be doing pretty flowing turns except in very nice open conditions. I use reg NNN and new-style short tour skis -- 65mm wide -- with 15 lb pack -- and find that I have to do the long traverses thru the woods when it gets steep 'n' dicey. I can tele-shred these skis on the blues at a groomed area. Anyway, if there's steep up'n'downs plus plenty of kick'n'glide to do plus a 60 lb pack plus crust plus novice skills -- ha -- count on the traverses. Or even hiking. Doing XC skiing on narrow steep hiking trails is a big challenge. It's fun finding what fits your needs, skills, conditions, terrain. Good luck! : ) |
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