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  #11  
Old March 12th 08, 12:28 PM posted to rec.skiing.resorts.europe
Matt T
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Posts: 158
Default Snow!

On 12 Mar, 11:31, john elgy wrote:
I am not sure what wind chill has to do with it. Wind chill is the
ability of moving air to remove heat from a cooler body. If the air temp
*is above freezing the snow will melt and the stronger the wind the
faster it will melt.


I meant to say warmer body of course





The snow below the zero isotherm is because it was formed above that
height and has not melted before reaching the ground. The greater the
intensity of snow (due to the latent heat of thawing, requiring more
heat to melt the greater volume of snow as it falls) and colder the
clouds, the lower the snow level will be.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It's all gone a bit scientific - that's the last time I use a term
like 'isotherm'. What I CAN tell you though is that it's still dumping
with snow at 2100m even though the air temperature appears to be 3
degrees. It's melting on the road, but it's settling on the other
snow. Apparently it's raining in Les Boisses (1800m). The temperature
is due to drop again this afternoon and I expect the roads will get
covered again. Meteo Bourg are forecasting up to 60cm tonight which is
frankly unbelievable.

Matt
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  #12  
Old March 12th 08, 03:49 PM posted to rec.skiing.resorts.europe
john elgy
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Posts: 68
Default Snow!

Matt T wrote:
On 12 Mar, 11:31, john elgy wrote:

I am not sure what wind chill has to do with it. Wind chill is the
ability of moving air to remove heat from a cooler body. If the air temp
is above freezing the snow will melt and the stronger the wind the
faster it will melt.


I meant to say warmer body of course






The snow below the zero isotherm is because it was formed above that
height and has not melted before reaching the ground. The greater the
intensity of snow (due to the latent heat of thawing, requiring more
heat to melt the greater volume of snow as it falls) and colder the
clouds, the lower the snow level will be.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -



It's all gone a bit scientific - that's the last time I use a term
like 'isotherm'. What I CAN tell you though is that it's still dumping
with snow at 2100m even though the air temperature appears to be 3
degrees. It's melting on the road, but it's settling on the other
snow. Apparently it's raining in Les Boisses (1800m). The temperature
is due to drop again this afternoon and I expect the roads will get
covered again. Meteo Bourg are forecasting up to 60cm tonight which is
frankly unbelievable.

Matt

Excellent! However, I see from Meteo France that the temperature is to
rise dramatically at the weekend.

I hope at least some stays until Easter.
  #13  
Old March 12th 08, 10:54 PM posted to rec.skiing.resorts.europe
Higgins
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Posts: 6
Default Snow!

Roger Moss wrote:

"john elgy" wrote in message
...
Ace wrote:
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:31:41 +0100, in ,
"Roger Moss" wrote:


"Le Dieu" wrote in message
...

"Ace" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:55:26 GMT, in
, "Le Dieu"

wrote:


"Matt T" wrote in message
...


Lots of it! With more forecast into next week!

* - zero isotherm's going to be around 1400-1800M in the Savoie, so
choose wisely...


Um, what does this last bit mean?

Below that height the snow will be melting.


Or:

Below that line the snow will be... rain :-(


Not strictly speaking. The rain/snow limit is often quite diffreent
from the zero-degree mark. Usually much lower, so one can still get
significant accumulation of snow very much lower than the 0 degree
line.

It is not even a fixed or necessarily positive difference. I have seen
snow at 4 degrees (let's ignore hail in the summer), whhich normally
is a 600m difference. Nauturally it tends not to last once the storm
has passed.


Proof of our old friend the Wind-Chill Factor having its effect?

First time I went to Tremblant (Quebec) the mountain-top temp was -25C,
to which they had to factor in a further wind-chill of -20C.

As a result of which I can tell you that -45C feels a bit nippy...

Indeed, been there, done that, etc. Between the wind and the cold, I've
seen myself having to use my poles to get started on McCulloch and
Kandahar
  #14  
Old March 18th 08, 11:53 AM posted to rec.skiing.resorts.europe
Matt T
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Posts: 158
Default Snow!

On 11 Mar, 11:44, Matt T wrote:
Lots of it! With more forecast into next week!

Anyone holding off for that last minute deal - go book it now *. I
think there's a lot of fun to be had over the next fortnight, as long
as the wind doesn't blow all the powder into Italy.

Matt

* - zero isotherm's going to be around 1400-1800M in the Savoie, so
choose wisely...


Well, heck - I was taking the forecast with a pinch of salt, but the
last 60 hours have brought maybe another 50cm, possibly more. It was
still a bit cloudy at 9am which seemed to keep some people in doors,
so we had an hour of deserted pistes and powder everywhere. Then the
sun came out and so did the crowds, but it still doesn't feel very
busy - not much in the way of lift queues.

Best conditions of the season here so far I'd say, and all the
forecasters seem to be agreeing for once that Thu/Fri/Sat will bring
another 50 to 70 cms coinciding with a big drop in temperature
(freezing at sea-level). Whoop!

Matt

  #15  
Old March 18th 08, 01:20 PM posted to rec.skiing.resorts.europe
Ace[_2_]
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Posts: 77
Default Snow!

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:53:26 -0700 (PDT), in
,
Matt T wrote:

Well, heck - I was taking the forecast with a pinch of salt, but the
last 60 hours have brought maybe another 50cm, possibly more.


I'd guess at an average level of 50cm new snow in Engelberg over the
last three days too. That's on top of the new stuff that had fallen
earlier last week, so in sheltered areas there really is a metre or
more of fresh snow. At times on Sunday it was difficult to breathe
through the snow.

Oddly the official reports often show much less new snow than I've
personally seen, but they seem to be taken at village level, 1000m,
which is pretty irrelevant to what's fallen between 1800m and 3000m,
where most of the skiing is. When I left the hill yesterday afternoon
around three it was snowing heavily as low as 1200m, with heavy rain
at the village level and all the way back to Basel later on.

It was
still a bit cloudy at 9am which seemed to keep some people in doors,
so we had an hour of deserted pistes and powder everywhere. Then the
sun came out and so did the crowds, but it still doesn't feel very
busy - not much in the way of lift queues.


Best skiing of my (long) weekend was probably on Sunday, when poor
visibility kept the day trippers away, but we got lucky and skiied in
the clear bits, with the poorer visibility mostly when we were having
lunch.

Started the day with a run down the Laub, which had been good, then
even better, the two times we'd done it the day before. Even our high
expectations were exceeded, with deep soft powder for much of its
1200m drop, and only a half-dozen sets of tracks (despite our 0930
start) spread out across the mountain. Tree-skiing (well between the
bushes really) towards the bottom made the most of the snow down
there, again cutting fresh tracks in new snow, with very little in the
way of sun- or wind-affected crustiness. Later we did more in the
Jochpass area and down to Engstlialp, which was equally nice.

Best conditions of the season here so far I'd say, and all the
forecasters seem to be agreeing for once that Thu/Fri/Sat will bring
another 50 to 70 cms coinciding with a big drop in temperature
(freezing at sea-level). Whoop!


More forecast for Engelberg too, which is good as we've got a group of
friends coming over for the whole of next week. Freezing levels of
~700m should keep all the new stuff in great nick, we hope.

  #16  
Old March 20th 08, 08:51 AM posted to rec.skiing.resorts.europe
john elgy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default Snow!

Ace wrote:
On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:53:26 -0700 (PDT), in
,
Matt T wrote:


Well, heck - I was taking the forecast with a pinch of salt, but the
last 60 hours have brought maybe another 50cm, possibly more.



I'd guess at an average level of 50cm new snow in Engelberg over the
last three days too. That's on top of the new stuff that had fallen
earlier last week, so in sheltered areas there really is a metre or
more of fresh snow. At times on Sunday it was difficult to breathe
through the snow.

Oddly the official reports often show much less new snow than I've
personally seen, but they seem to be taken at village level, 1000m,
which is pretty irrelevant to what's fallen between 1800m and 3000m,
where most of the skiing is. When I left the hill yesterday afternoon
around three it was snowing heavily as low as 1200m, with heavy rain
at the village level and all the way back to Basel later on.


It was
still a bit cloudy at 9am which seemed to keep some people in doors,
so we had an hour of deserted pistes and powder everywhere. Then the
sun came out and so did the crowds, but it still doesn't feel very
busy - not much in the way of lift queues.



Best skiing of my (long) weekend was probably on Sunday, when poor
visibility kept the day trippers away, but we got lucky and skiied in
the clear bits, with the poorer visibility mostly when we were having
lunch.

Started the day with a run down the Laub, which had been good, then
even better, the two times we'd done it the day before. Even our high
expectations were exceeded, with deep soft powder for much of its
1200m drop, and only a half-dozen sets of tracks (despite our 0930
start) spread out across the mountain. Tree-skiing (well between the
bushes really) towards the bottom made the most of the snow down
there, again cutting fresh tracks in new snow, with very little in the
way of sun- or wind-affected crustiness. Later we did more in the
Jochpass area and down to Engstlialp, which was equally nice.


Best conditions of the season here so far I'd say, and all the
forecasters seem to be agreeing for once that Thu/Fri/Sat will bring
another 50 to 70 cms coinciding with a big drop in temperature
(freezing at sea-level). Whoop!



More forecast for Engelberg too, which is good as we've got a group of
friends coming over for the whole of next week. Freezing levels of
~700m should keep all the new stuff in great nick, we hope.

Sounds excellent, Ace. We have friends out in Les Arcs at the moment and
they are reporting the best skiing of their lives. The forecast for the
next few days looks bad (we are driving down over night this evening). I
will double check the snow chains! From what I hear I may have to swap
my ice skis (actually racing skis) for a pair of soft things.

John
  #17  
Old March 21st 08, 11:05 AM posted to rec.skiing.resorts.europe
Matt T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 158
Default Snow!

On 18 Mar, 11:53, Matt T wrote:
On 11 Mar, 11:44, Matt T wrote:

Lots of it! With more forecast into next week!


Anyone holding off for that last minute deal - go book it now *. I
think there's a lot of fun to be had over the next fortnight, as long
as the wind doesn't blow all the powder into Italy.


Matt


* - zero isotherm's going to be around 1400-1800M in the Savoie, so
choose wisely...


Well, heck - I was taking the forecast with a pinch of salt, but the
last 60 hours have brought maybe another 50cm, possibly more. It was
still a bit cloudy at 9am which seemed to keep some people in doors,
so we had an hour of deserted pistes and powder everywhere. Then the
sun came out and so did the crowds, but it still doesn't feel very
busy - not much in the way of lift queues.

Best conditions of the season here so far I'd say, and all the
forecasters seem to be agreeing for once that Thu/Fri/Sat will bring
another 50 to 70 cms coinciding with a big drop in temperature
(freezing at sea-level). Whoop!

Matt


It just gets better and better. They were right about the new snow -
it's fully dumping outside and due to get heavier as the day and night
go on. How I'm going to get my parents to the Eurostar tomorrow
morning is anyone's guess. Chains, 4x4, an early start and a bit of
luck I expect.

As for conditions this week, I think the quote from 'Chippie' (Tignes
legend and recent 'star' of the new Ski Sunday) says it all - "That's
as good as it gets."

Me thinks that if it's sunny at all next week, he may have to revise
that statement.

Matt
 




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