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#1
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Cross country ski's
Hi all,
Maybe this isn't quite the group for it, because people normally discuss downhill skiing, but maybe this post still fits. I want to buy my first pair of cross country/langlauf ski's. I am interested in these newer nordic ski's where you can ski in the loipe or out of it. Particularly, I am looking at these ski's: http://www.fischer-ski.com/de/produc...id_product=228 or http://www.fischer-ski.com/de/produc...id_product=226 I am 184cm and weigh 77kgs. Are these type of ski's suitable? What length should I get? Also, what length poles are suitable? The reason I am asking here is that I have been to two shops. One said that these ski's are not stiff enough and I needed these Salomon ones (forget the model) in 194cm! I went to the other store and he said that the ski's above are fine, but I only needed size 174cm. Frankly, I think I might need a size in between this. Likewise, the first guy said I need poles up to the top of my shoulder, and the second guy said up to my armpit. So I'm a bit confused. Any help would be great! Thanks |
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#2
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Yeah. This really belongs on rec.ski.nordic. But since you're here ....
Well, I'm afraid I won't give you a simple answer. First of all, height is far less important, almost not a factor, compared to your weight and, to a lesser extent in beginners, how you ski. What the person who recommended the stiffer ski was talking about was camber - the way the ski bends upward when it's flat and you're not standing on it. Basically, the heavier you are, the more camber you need, but if you have too much, you can't press the ski to the snow and get good grip. Too little, and your skis will drag and make you feel slow and tire you out quickly. You have to find the right balance, and going by your height and ski length might be a general guide but isn't really enough. High-end shops selling high-end skis to racers will do extensive testing on camber to find just the right combination, but for recreational skiers, any good shop should be able to help. Your height is basically irrelevant, other than, obviously, really tall people generally weigh more than really short people. The shop person can weigh you and then should know what skis have the proper camber. But the best way is to have you test skis on a flat board. If a piece of paper can fit under the skis when your weight is evenly distributed on both, but can't be removed when you stand on just one, it's probably at least close to the proper camber. As for length, a general rule of thumb is to hold your arm up above your head, and if the ski reaches to you wrist, it's probably about the right length. Today's skis may come a bit shorter than 15 or 20 years ago, so ask the shop person if the ski you're interested in is designed to be skied shorter, but that is a starting place. That said, and with the caveat that I'm not really familiar with these skis, I think 184 is what you need, if not longer. I'm a good bit shorter and lighter than you, and I ski on a 180-something. You could almost go with a 174 in an alpine ski! Unless these are specifically made to be skied shorter, 174 would be too short. They might feel like slippery snowshoes! Either of the skis you mention seem good. Fischer is a good brand in nordic skis, and these are Fischer's good average-skier, all-around models. I'm not sure what "loipe" means, but I'm going to assume it means "track." Yes, these are workable in set tracks and out, but I suspect they're not really backcountry skis. It won't go as fast as a true in-track ski, and it won't be as steady and easy to turn as a true backcountry-touring ski. But if these are your very first XC skis, they seem like a reasonable choice and reasonably good at both. If you expect to do a lot of out-of-track skiing, and in a place with icy snow and steep hills, you might consider getting partial or full metal edges and higher, stiffer boots. Many people push shorter nordic skis. They are easier to control on hills. But they can be too short. if they're too short, they might not glide well, and that's defeating the the essense of cross country skiing, the reason to do it in the first place. If you want to have precise control on steep hills, you should be in alpine or telemark gear! As for poles, go with the armpit length. The top of the shoulder is getting into skate-length poles, and you aren't buying skating skis. Longer can be an advantage in that you can push further. But too long and they get harder to move and cumbersome, and that defeats the purpose. Don't overlook the boots. As in alpine skiing, they actually can be more important than the ski (once you get the right camber). The second one looks better because it has an ankle cuff. Get the most support you can afford - though don't go too far and get a heavy, high boot, which would weigh you down while cruising. Remember: You're under your own power now! Be sure they fit well. Precise fit isn't quite as important as in alpine boots, but it's important: too tight and you'll have cold, hurting feet, and too loose and you'll have painful blisters. In XC, you can't just step into the lodge, because it might be miles/kilometers away. Finally, consider whether you want SNS (Salomon) bindings or NNN bindings. Unlike alpine bindings, these aren't interchangeable. You can't use SNS boots on a pair of skis with NNN bindings and vice versa. I've used both and SNS seems to offer a bit more control, but others will disagree, and I would admit the difference is slight if any at all. The disadvantage is SNS bindings are a little like Macintosh computers - probably slightly better, but not quite as common and not interchangeable with more makes of bindings and skis. If your shop sells only SNS boots, or the boot you want only comes in SNS, that's fine, go with them. And remember: even waxless skis need glide wax! Good luck and have fun. AH wrote: Hi all, Maybe this isn't quite the group for it, because people normally discuss downhill skiing, but maybe this post still fits. I want to buy my first pair of cross country/langlauf ski's. I am interested in these newer nordic ski's where you can ski in the loipe or out of it. Particularly, I am looking at these ski's: http://www.fischer-ski.com/de/produc...id_product=228 or http://www.fischer-ski.com/de/produc...id_product=226 I am 184cm and weigh 77kgs. Are these type of ski's suitable? What length should I get? Also, what length poles are suitable? The reason I am asking here is that I have been to two shops. One said that these ski's are not stiff enough and I needed these Salomon ones (forget the model) in 194cm! I went to the other store and he said that the ski's above are fine, but I only needed size 174cm. Frankly, I think I might need a size in between this. Likewise, the first guy said I need poles up to the top of my shoulder, and the second guy said up to my armpit. So I'm a bit confused. Any help would be great! Thanks |
#3
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Firstly, thanks so much for your excellent post. I'm sure it took you quite
a while to write, and I really appreciate it! I ended up getting the 184cm. It is the longest of these type of ski's and I have read that for these type of skis, you do tend to ski them shorter. Anyhow, I did the test in the shop. Because I can't trust the sales guys in there (as I mentioned, two people told me completely opposite things), I did your paper test. They went under when standing on both, however they did come out again also when standing on just one. This was a bit of a concern, but they were the longest/biggest ones there so I thought I would take them anyway. I live in Munich and we haev received quite a bit of snow lately so I thought I would take them out. Of course, having never been on these type of ski's before I'm really not too sure how they compare, however I'm pretty sure they are just what I was looking for. They seem to glide well, but my main concern (because of the paper test) was whether they would grip properly. So I took them up a hill and they were fine, climbed it no problem. Anyway, thank you again for your help! "daveonthebumps" wrote in message oups.com... Yeah. This really belongs on rec.ski.nordic. But since you're here .... Well, I'm afraid I won't give you a simple answer. First of all, height is far less important, almost not a factor, compared to your weight and, to a lesser extent in beginners, how you ski. What the person who recommended the stiffer ski was talking about was camber - the way the ski bends upward when it's flat and you're not standing on it. Basically, the heavier you are, the more camber you need, but if you have too much, you can't press the ski to the snow and get good grip. Too little, and your skis will drag and make you feel slow and tire you out quickly. You have to find the right balance, and going by your height and ski length might be a general guide but isn't really enough. High-end shops selling high-end skis to racers will do extensive testing on camber to find just the right combination, but for recreational skiers, any good shop should be able to help. Your height is basically irrelevant, other than, obviously, really tall people generally weigh more than really short people. The shop person can weigh you and then should know what skis have the proper camber. But the best way is to have you test skis on a flat board. If a piece of paper can fit under the skis when your weight is evenly distributed on both, but can't be removed when you stand on just one, it's probably at least close to the proper camber. As for length, a general rule of thumb is to hold your arm up above your head, and if the ski reaches to you wrist, it's probably about the right length. Today's skis may come a bit shorter than 15 or 20 years ago, so ask the shop person if the ski you're interested in is designed to be skied shorter, but that is a starting place. That said, and with the caveat that I'm not really familiar with these skis, I think 184 is what you need, if not longer. I'm a good bit shorter and lighter than you, and I ski on a 180-something. You could almost go with a 174 in an alpine ski! Unless these are specifically made to be skied shorter, 174 would be too short. They might feel like slippery snowshoes! Either of the skis you mention seem good. Fischer is a good brand in nordic skis, and these are Fischer's good average-skier, all-around models. I'm not sure what "loipe" means, but I'm going to assume it means "track." Yes, these are workable in set tracks and out, but I suspect they're not really backcountry skis. It won't go as fast as a true in-track ski, and it won't be as steady and easy to turn as a true backcountry-touring ski. But if these are your very first XC skis, they seem like a reasonable choice and reasonably good at both. If you expect to do a lot of out-of-track skiing, and in a place with icy snow and steep hills, you might consider getting partial or full metal edges and higher, stiffer boots. Many people push shorter nordic skis. They are easier to control on hills. But they can be too short. if they're too short, they might not glide well, and that's defeating the the essense of cross country skiing, the reason to do it in the first place. If you want to have precise control on steep hills, you should be in alpine or telemark gear! As for poles, go with the armpit length. The top of the shoulder is getting into skate-length poles, and you aren't buying skating skis. Longer can be an advantage in that you can push further. But too long and they get harder to move and cumbersome, and that defeats the purpose. Don't overlook the boots. As in alpine skiing, they actually can be more important than the ski (once you get the right camber). The second one looks better because it has an ankle cuff. Get the most support you can afford - though don't go too far and get a heavy, high boot, which would weigh you down while cruising. Remember: You're under your own power now! Be sure they fit well. Precise fit isn't quite as important as in alpine boots, but it's important: too tight and you'll have cold, hurting feet, and too loose and you'll have painful blisters. In XC, you can't just step into the lodge, because it might be miles/kilometers away. Finally, consider whether you want SNS (Salomon) bindings or NNN bindings. Unlike alpine bindings, these aren't interchangeable. You can't use SNS boots on a pair of skis with NNN bindings and vice versa. I've used both and SNS seems to offer a bit more control, but others will disagree, and I would admit the difference is slight if any at all. The disadvantage is SNS bindings are a little like Macintosh computers - probably slightly better, but not quite as common and not interchangeable with more makes of bindings and skis. If your shop sells only SNS boots, or the boot you want only comes in SNS, that's fine, go with them. And remember: even waxless skis need glide wax! Good luck and have fun. AH wrote: Hi all, Maybe this isn't quite the group for it, because people normally discuss downhill skiing, but maybe this post still fits. I want to buy my first pair of cross country/langlauf ski's. I am interested in these newer nordic ski's where you can ski in the loipe or out of it. Particularly, I am looking at these ski's: http://www.fischer-ski.com/de/produc...id_product=228 or http://www.fischer-ski.com/de/produc...id_product=226 I am 184cm and weigh 77kgs. Are these type of ski's suitable? What length should I get? Also, what length poles are suitable? The reason I am asking here is that I have been to two shops. One said that these ski's are not stiff enough and I needed these Salomon ones (forget the model) in 194cm! I went to the other store and he said that the ski's above are fine, but I only needed size 174cm. Frankly, I think I might need a size in between this. Likewise, the first guy said I need poles up to the top of my shoulder, and the second guy said up to my armpit. So I'm a bit confused. Any help would be great! Thanks |
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