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"Backcountry" Equipment..hmmm?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 31st 03, 12:18 AM
Jelso
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Default "Backcountry" Equipment..hmmm?

My Question is what type of skis, bindings and boots to get:

My wife and are starting to get more into "backcountry" skiing. We
recently went up to Mt. Lassen and were fine on the road (Hwy 89)
because it had tracks. However, once we ventured off the road and onto
the bypass near Diamond Peak we were unable to climb and on the way
down we had little control. It was still great skiing in the virgin
powder even though we ate it often. We have also skied out to Dewey
Point at Yosemite.

Right now we pretty much have track skis. My wife (5ft/100lbs) is a
beginner-intermediate. I (5'11/180) am more advanced and used to ski
with 3 pin and leather boots (sold long ago at garage sale) and used
to do a little resort telemarking. I would to take some telemark
refresher courses and get my wife to take some too. We would also
like to continue our treks off track and possible build up to a trip
to Ostrander hut (and similar trips) someday.

There is a big jump to the next level (in weight and cost) of
equipment. Looks like we can

1) choose among a few remaining makes/models of 3 pin leather boots,
2) stick with the standard boots (bar) or,
3) go for 3 pin plastic/telemark type boots and bindings

Skis – lots of different choices there too.

After a little research, I have some questions:

For the level of trips I described above (some on track, some off)
what type of equipment should we look at? I know skins will help on
the climb.

I figure we have our track skiis for groomed tracks…what about those
days when we want to do a little more? Safety is concern #1, cost is
2nd (cheaper to pay for good equipment than hospital bills).

Are telemark type boots too much? They don't look very glide
friendly.

Are releasable bindings too much? Already had a torn ACL from
downhill accident. Would rather have good equipment than have a trip
to the ER.

Thanks for any suggestions.
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  #2  
Old December 31st 03, 07:43 AM
Martin Thornquist
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[ ]

For the level of trips I described above (some on track, some off)
what type of equipment should we look at? I know skins will help on
the climb.


If those tracks are made for/by track skis, you gotta keep your skis
skinny to use them; modern backcountry/telemark skis are mostly far
too wide.

I figure we have our track skiis for groomed tracks -- what about
those days when we want to do a little more? Safety is concern #1,
cost is 2nd (cheaper to pay for good equipment than hospital bills).


For diverse conditions you want steel edges, at least. Double/single
camber and wax/waxless depends on use -- you need double camber for
real kick 'n glide, but single camber is much better for doing turns.

As you want to (re)learn the telemark turn, I'd go with turn-friendly
skis, that is single camber and not bothering about track width.

Are telemark type boots too much? They don't look very glide
friendly.


They say the softest plastic boots are quite good for touring (que
Pete Clinch). There aren't many leather boots left; the usual low
model don't give very much support for driving the skis downhill.

Are releasable bindings too much? Already had a torn ACL from
downhill accident. Would rather have good equipment than have a trip
to the ER.


Few people use them, they tend to weigh a lot extra. I ski Scarpa T1
on Salomon Teneighty, but I've never had a fall where I felt the need
for releasables. A friend of mine ruptured his meniscus (sp?) on
skiing steep tele though, maybe he wouldn't have been hurt so bad if
the skis had released. Difficult to say if it's worth the extra
weight.


Martin
--
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
-Paul Graham, On Lisp
  #3  
Old December 31st 03, 09:29 AM
Peter Clinch
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Default

Martin Thornquist wrote:

For diverse conditions you want steel edges, at least. Double/single
camber and wax/waxless depends on use -- you need double camber for
real kick 'n glide, but single camber is much better for doing turns.

As you want to (re)learn the telemark turn, I'd go with turn-friendly
skis, that is single camber and not bothering about track width.


In summary, you just can't have too many different sorts of skis! I
have track skis for the tracks and flattish woods, double camber steel
edged tourers for rolling terrain in the hills and wide things for the
steep stuff (light for touring, alpines with tele bindings for the
piste). Several repeats as well, with an old pair for rocks and a good
pair for snow.

They say the softest plastic boots are quite good for touring (que
Pete Clinch).


I use the original T3s for touring, similar to the current T4 and the
Garmont Excursion and Crispi CX-T are probably better, *if* they fit.
My decision to come out of leathers was purely based on fit, as I have
Scarpa shaped feet and Scarpa's leather range is not available in the
UK. What I do for touring is certainly fine in leathers, but a well
fitting plastic that's over the top is better than a heel-skinning
leather that's otherwise just right for it. I speak from painful
experience.
Given you've got something that fits, I'd sooner do day tours in
double-camber terrain on leathers. On longer tours other advantages of
plastics like total waterproofing, greater warmth and easy drying in
front of a fire without damaging them all fit into the equation.

Where plastics are undeniably better is downhill control. Even in the
light touring ones you'll get more power into your edges than any
leather boots still available (now the Mad crew have converted
completely to plastics). This can be quite nice on your tour for the
odd descent on the limits but it also means you can have one less pair
of boots for covering all the bases reasonably. I started to learn to
tele properly in my T3s, and though they're a bit small to power serious
carvers they will take less radical skis down fairly serious hills in
the right hands (or rather on the right feet!).

There aren't many leather boots left; the usual low
model don't give very much support for driving the skis downhill.


But Scarpa and Garmont still do make quite a range. The problem is
finding the things to try on!

Few people use them, they tend to weigh a lot extra. I ski Scarpa T1
on Salomon Teneighty, but I've never had a fall where I felt the need
for releasables. A friend of mine ruptured his meniscus (sp?) on
skiing steep tele though, maybe he wouldn't have been hurt so bad if
the skis had released. Difficult to say if it's worth the extra
weight.


I have releases on my piste skis where the weight is a non-issue. My
new wide touring skis don't: I'm not a very aggressive skier and the
free heel itself combined with relatively light bindings and boots (old
T3s, 2000 T2s, Riva 3s) gives a fair chance of something popping out
before my knees do! Last year, due a bit of brain-death on my part, I
skied a whole week with a too-long screw in the piste skis which
prevented one from releasing (D'oh!) but though the *other* one released
from time to time I never did anything that got me hurt. Releases get
more desirable as you ski more aggressive things and/or are relatively
less good. Unless you're pushing your boundaries an awful lot on the
steepest, fastest stuff you can manage I wouldn't personally bother any
more, having been more paranoid in the past.
If you do want a release on a touring ski then the Voile and 7TM are
fairly light, though not as light as not having there.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #4  
Old January 2nd 04, 01:58 AM
Brent
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Posts: n/a
Default

Check out:
http://www.backcountrymagazine.com/i...revi ews.html
which has a good review of the latest backcountry skies (mostly ones that
tour and turn) and boots (plastic and leather) to drive them.

I've used releasable plates on my lift tele boards for years, but unless
your heading for the really steep and deep I wouldn't bother. I have an old
torn ACL too. Seems to be a big debate about whether releasable tele
bindings are worthwhile in any type of skiing. As it stands even with new
lift boards I don't think I would get releasables again.

I bought a pair of Fisher Ottabounds with a 75mm leather/plastic combo boot
this year (Alpina Telelight that's not made anymore...good price though).
It's a perfert set up for backcountry cruises with some yo-yoing mixed in,
although I wish the negative cut waxless base climbed a bit better. Good
luck. I know it's a tough decision. I'm still trying to find the right set
for my wife who is a less experienced skier than I.

Brent

"Jelso" wrote in message
om...
My Question is what type of skis, bindings and boots to get:

My wife and are starting to get more into "backcountry" skiing. We
recently went up to Mt. Lassen and were fine on the road (Hwy 89)
because it had tracks. However, once we ventured off the road and onto
the bypass near Diamond Peak we were unable to climb and on the way
down we had little control. It was still great skiing in the virgin
powder even though we ate it often. We have also skied out to Dewey
Point at Yosemite.

Right now we pretty much have track skis. My wife (5ft/100lbs) is a
beginner-intermediate. I (5'11/180) am more advanced and used to ski
with 3 pin and leather boots (sold long ago at garage sale) and used
to do a little resort telemarking. I would to take some telemark
refresher courses and get my wife to take some too. We would also
like to continue our treks off track and possible build up to a trip
to Ostrander hut (and similar trips) someday.

There is a big jump to the next level (in weight and cost) of
equipment. Looks like we can

1) choose among a few remaining makes/models of 3 pin leather boots,
2) stick with the standard boots (bar) or,
3) go for 3 pin plastic/telemark type boots and bindings

Skis - lots of different choices there too.

After a little research, I have some questions:

For the level of trips I described above (some on track, some off)
what type of equipment should we look at? I know skins will help on
the climb.

I figure we have our track skiis for groomed tracks.what about those
days when we want to do a little more? Safety is concern #1, cost is
2nd (cheaper to pay for good equipment than hospital bills).

Are telemark type boots too much? They don't look very glide
friendly.

Are releasable bindings too much? Already had a torn ACL from
downhill accident. Would rather have good equipment than have a trip
to the ER.

Thanks for any suggestions.



 




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