Turning Corner In Classic Tracks

On a down hill where there is classic track, I am having a hard time
turning corners. Does anyone have any suggestions about the technique
to stay in the track? Such as: Weight distribution --weight on the
outside foot? Leg position --outside ski forward? Upper body position
--twist into the turn, --or reverse twist away from turn?

On Dec 26, 9:37 am, "JP(CA)" wrote:
On a down hill where there is classic track, I am having a hard time
turning corners. Does anyone have any suggestions about the technique
to stay in the track? Such as: Weight distribution --weight on the
outside foot? Leg position --outside ski forward? Upper body position
--twist into the turn, --or reverse twist away from turn?

One of my pet peeves. One of the most important things I think that
MANY fairly good XC skiers neglect is simply PRACTICING downhill
technique and trying to get better. I know many, many, many skiers
who are more fit and stronger than me, but all they do is work on
fitness. They never work on downhill and are very content to ski like
spastic neophytes downhill. I can often ski with people who are
stronger than me simply because I can gain (or make up) a surprising
amount of distance or time downhill, especially the corners. It never
crosses their mind that this requires practice, it just doesn't come
magically and that they are very incomplete as skiers if they work on
only 1/2 of the sport. It also pays off big time both recreationally
and racing in terms of FUN, relaxation, and gained speed and
momentum.

Here's what seems to work for me.

It is very important to get your weight down -knees and ankles bent,
hands forward. Get your center of gravity down. It is much easier to
control your balance and where your weight is going if it is low. It
is a very strong tendancy to stand up straighter and wave your arms
around when you feel uncomfortable down hill (like going fast around a
corner in the tracks), but that will actually make it harder to
control your balance. By the way, the same applies to skating around
a corner downhill. The lower the better both in terms of balance and
in being able to put some force into the skating turns.

You also want to counteract the natural force that throws your weight
to the outside of the corner, and over-weights your outside ski. Some
think in terms of weighting the inside ski. My mental image is more
like even weight on both skis, but defninitely not weighting the
outside ski. There can be a tendancy to over do putting weight on the
inside ski (yes, I've fallen to the inside of corners, especially
when tired). That's why I kind of think in terms of "equal"
distribution, good balance on both skis rather than riding either
ski.

The way to counteract being thrown to the outside that I have been
taught, and think this is the best way: As you are going around a
corner in a nice comfortable crouched position as described above,
turn your hips toward the inside of the corner. This will get the
center of gravity off of the outside ski and onto the inside ski and
help you counteract the force that is pushing you to the outside of
the turn. Another way to "visualize" this, is that when you turn your
hip to the inside of the corner, you will also turn the same side
shoulder forward, kind of leading with that shoulder. You are not
rotating or leaning the shoulders to the outside, more of just moving
that inside shoulder to lead the way down the tracks. I kind of think
of both when I'm getting that position.

Some people I know turn their shoulders and kind of lean the shoulders
into the inside of the corner - again the rationale is that this gets
the center of gravity towards the inside of the corner. A danger here
is if, when rotating your shoulders in, you rotate the butt and hips
to the outside of the corner, defeating the purpose.

That's why I don't like that method. I just feel more comfortable with
the hip rotation and it makes more sense to me.

All this requires practice and starting on hills corners that are less
challenging and working up to steeper, faster, tighter corners. A
good thing to do every time you ski. Downhill technique is fun - to
me much more fun than popping my heart uphill!

JP(CA) wrote:
On a down hill where there is classic track, I am having a hard time
turning corners. Does anyone have any suggestions about the technique
to stay in the track? Such as: Weight distribution --weight on the
outside foot? Leg position --outside ski forward? Upper body position
--twist into the turn, --or reverse twist away from turn?

This can be an interesting problem, although it doesn't really matter
too much!

I.e. it is a challenge to stay low down in a tuck, while staying in the
tracks around tight corners.

OTOH, it is actually slightly easier to do so while tucked than when
standing upright, since the baseline (distance between left & right ski)
becomes relatively longer! It does feel a bit scary though.

My usual approach when skiing in a track set far to the side of the
trail is to lift the inner leg/ski (the one closest to the center of the
trail) out of the track, since that allows more room for steering.

Finally, for really fast cornering, it is actually faster to get out of
the tracks, then make step turns around the corner, instead of simply
staying in the tracks.

I.e. don't worry about staying in the track, just make those turns
quickly, without snowplowing! :-)

Terje

--
-
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

Places to practice downhill techniques are not equally distributed.

I'm not sure if Camilo has spoken to what to do in the tracks with
classical skis, but here's a quick summary. A lot depends on speed
coming in and degree of the turn. Some options:

- in tracks, weight more on outside foot, turning upper body
gradually into turn.
- in tracks on speedy sweeping turn, do a counterturn - upper body
facing out, knees and ankles rolled in, a little more weight on the
outside ski. Alpine skiers will recognize this.
- part in tracks - take one ski out and plow to degree necessary to
control speed. Preference to doing it with outside ski, but not always
room. This is more a recreational or a last-ditch tactic to control
speed if in tracks.
- Otherwise, jump out of the tracks completely at some point. In
latter two, push down on (load) one ski to free the other to step out.

Marty Hall (and Pam Penfold?) has a good write up on this in his 1980s
book, One Stride Ahead. See the used book sites. Also, watch or
follow good skiers and imitate what they do.

rm

Camilo wrote:

On Dec 26, 9:37 am, "JP(CA)" wrote:
On a down hill where there is classic track, I am having a hard time
turning corners. Does anyone have any suggestions about the technique
to stay in the track? Such as: Weight distribution --weight on the
outside foot? Leg position --outside ski forward? Upper body position
--twist into the turn, --or reverse twist away from turn?

One of my pet peeves. One of the most important things I think that
MANY fairly good XC skiers neglect is simply PRACTICING downhill
technique and trying to get better. I know many, many, many skiers
who are more fit and stronger than me, but all they do is work on
fitness. They never work on downhill and are very content to ski like
spastic neophytes downhill. I can often ski with people who are
stronger than me simply because I can gain (or make up) a surprising
amount of distance or time downhill, especially the corners. It never
crosses their mind that this requires practice, it just doesn't come
magically and that they are very incomplete as skiers if they work on
only 1/2 of the sport. It also pays off big time both recreationally
and racing in terms of FUN, relaxation, and gained speed and
momentum.

Here's what seems to work for me.

It is very important to get your weight down -knees and ankles bent,
hands forward. Get your center of gravity down. It is much easier to
control your balance and where your weight is going if it is low. It
is a very strong tendancy to stand up straighter and wave your arms
around when you feel uncomfortable down hill (like going fast around a
corner in the tracks), but that will actually make it harder to
control your balance. By the way, the same applies to skating around
a corner downhill. The lower the better both in terms of balance and
in being able to put some force into the skating turns.

You also want to counteract the natural force that throws your weight
to the outside of the corner, and over-weights your outside ski. Some
think in terms of weighting the inside ski. My mental image is more
like even weight on both skis, but defninitely not weighting the
outside ski. There can be a tendancy to over do putting weight on the
inside ski (yes, I've fallen to the inside of corners, especially
when tired). That's why I kind of think in terms of "equal"
distribution, good balance on both skis rather than riding either
ski.

The way to counteract being thrown to the outside that I have been
taught, and think this is the best way: As you are going around a
corner in a nice comfortable crouched position as described above,
turn your hips toward the inside of the corner. This will get the
center of gravity off of the outside ski and onto the inside ski and
help you counteract the force that is pushing you to the outside of
the turn. Another way to "visualize" this, is that when you turn your
hip to the inside of the corner, you will also turn the same side
shoulder forward, kind of leading with that shoulder. You are not
rotating or leaning the shoulders to the outside, more of just moving
that inside shoulder to lead the way down the tracks. I kind of think
of both when I'm getting that position.

Some people I know turn their shoulders and kind of lean the shoulders
into the inside of the corner - again the rationale is that this gets
the center of gravity towards the inside of the corner. A danger here
is if, when rotating your shoulders in, you rotate the butt and hips
to the outside of the corner, defeating the purpose.

That's why I don't like that method. I just feel more comfortable with
the hip rotation and it makes more sense to me.

All this requires practice and starting on hills corners that are less
challenging and working up to steeper, faster, tighter corners. A
good thing to do every time you ski. Downhill technique is fun - to
me much more fun than popping my heart uphill!