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#1
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Big-mountain or Short-turny
I posted this on my local snowboard website but would be interested the
thoughts from a broader audience too. Background - I came to snowboarding pretty late, turn 40 in a month, and age and multiple knee surgeries will prevent me from every progressing beyond strong intermediacy. 175lbs and pretty fit. Admire freestyle skills but no interest in developing them for myself. Currently usually ride in hardboots because I have most fun at higher speed cruising on moderate slopes. Lately, I've spent more time in softboots due to the flexibility(of usage, not the boots themselves). I just sold a Donek Wide as I've gotten to be most comfortable with more forward angles and didn't need the extra width, would rather have the faster edge transition. As far as actual runs go, I spend most of my time on the longer blues trying to ride fast and smooth, forays offpiste but inbounds in search of powder: Debbies and GoldNugget at Snoqualmie, everything off Chair8 at Baker, all the long blues and sometimes easier tree runs at Crystal and Stevens. That being the case, what do you see as the tradeoff between a big- mountain shape and some of the more turny tapered shapes? Big-mountain shapes would be things like the Winterstick Tom Burt 172, Steepwater 171 Steep, or a Donek Incline 168. They are all long, stiff and have long sidecut radii. Good for stability at speed but not so turny for all the bumps that always form two hours after a dump and tree runs. The opposite end would be something like the Prior Khyber, Option Northshore, etc(no Fish/Malolo, don't like the 3-hole mount). Supposedly good in pow & tree but also fun for all-round use. In the middle, all the stiffer freeride boards but most interested in Prior MFR and Donek Incline due to excellent experiences with the boards and customer service from the makers. I like the specificity of the big-mountain models and the Khyber but wonder which direction people find most effective for the PacNWish conditions. C. -- -she ain't revved 'til them rods is thrown... |
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#2
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I'm on a Prior Men's Freeride this season, and love it... Check out what
I've had to say about it recently in this thread: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...345 30937a7e6 I almost went with a Khyber too, but am glad I didn't. I don't think a powder board would work well as a primary board, but would certainly make a fun addition to your quiver! Good luck! I'm sure you get some advice from the group. Brian. "corbeau" wrote in message ews.com... I posted this on my local snowboard website but would be interested the thoughts from a broader audience too. Background - I came to snowboarding pretty late, turn 40 in a month, and age and multiple knee surgeries will prevent me from every progressing beyond strong intermediacy. 175lbs and pretty fit. Admire freestyle skills but no interest in developing them for myself. Currently usually ride in hardboots because I have most fun at higher speed cruising on moderate slopes. Lately, I've spent more time in softboots due to the flexibility(of usage, not the boots themselves). I just sold a Donek Wide as I've gotten to be most comfortable with more forward angles and didn't need the extra width, would rather have the faster edge transition. As far as actual runs go, I spend most of my time on the longer blues trying to ride fast and smooth, forays offpiste but inbounds in search of powder: Debbies and GoldNugget at Snoqualmie, everything off Chair8 at Baker, all the long blues and sometimes easier tree runs at Crystal and Stevens. That being the case, what do you see as the tradeoff between a big- mountain shape and some of the more turny tapered shapes? Big-mountain shapes would be things like the Winterstick Tom Burt 172, Steepwater 171 Steep, or a Donek Incline 168. They are all long, stiff and have long sidecut radii. Good for stability at speed but not so turny for all the bumps that always form two hours after a dump and tree runs. The opposite end would be something like the Prior Khyber, Option Northshore, etc(no Fish/Malolo, don't like the 3-hole mount). Supposedly good in pow & tree but also fun for all-round use. In the middle, all the stiffer freeride boards but most interested in Prior MFR and Donek Incline due to excellent experiences with the boards and customer service from the makers. I like the specificity of the big-mountain models and the Khyber but wonder which direction people find most effective for the PacNWish conditions. C. -- -she ain't revved 'til them rods is thrown... |
#3
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On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:45:36 GMT, corbeau
allegedly wrote: I like the specificity of the big-mountain models and the Khyber but wonder which direction people find most effective for the PacNWish conditions. It's a tough call, especially when you're parting with cash. You can obtain the high speed stability by having a stiffer board, and reducing the overall length. This would then making fast turns in trees and moguls a little easier. That said, things don't tend to get too bumpy under Baker's C8, and a stiff board will track over the tracked out powder a little nicer. Personally I have a shorter but stiffer board for my general all round beast. I might be able to charge my 181 under C5 when there's 2ft fresh, but after the fresh has gone I'd need my 162. In a way, we like the same things, so maybe this would work for you too. - Dave. -- The only powder to get high on, falls from the sky. http://www.vpas.org/ - Snowboarding the worlds pow pow - Securing your e-mail The Snowboard FAQ lives here - http://rssFAQ.org/ |
#4
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"corbeau" wrote transition. As far as actual runs go, I spend most of my time on the longer blues trying to ride fast and smooth, forays offpiste but inbounds in search of powder: Debbies and GoldNugget at Snoqualmie, everything off Chair8 at Baker, all the long blues and sometimes easier tree runs at Crystal and Stevens. That being the case, what do you see as the tradeoff between a big- mountain shape and some of the more turny tapered shapes? ... I like the specificity of the big-mountain models and the Khyber but wonder which direction people find most effective for the PacNWish conditions. After trying quite a few boards over the last couple of years, it looks like I've found a happy compromise in a medium length, medium to high stiffness board with a tight sidecut. I find that carving smooth blue runs I can basically do on anything, and the amount of fun I get out of it doesn't really depend all that much on the board, but more on comfort in the boots, binding setup, board tune (edge sharpness, bevel, wax). Of course, I'm not talking noodle pure freestyle boards, but pretty much anything else just works. (mind you, I could not say that in the beginning of last year - takes some practice to get to this stage). Now, what comes next is where the board actually does make a big difference for me. Bumps - need a short, light, turny, grippy board. If I don't have something close to that, plus bindings that allow considerable range of motion, I just can't do it. With the Channel Titanium and Nidecker freeride bindings I could not, for the life of me, no matter how hard I tried, take a run directly under chair 6 at Baker top to bottom without _at least_ 2 stops to catch my breath. I could do it in one mad dash on my Nitro Shadow and TechNine bindings with even some energy left in me, and it was very satisfying because stops kick me off my rythm, dissipate concentration and generally suck. Same goes for tree runs and steeper smooth parts. When dropping into a chute, if I don't plan to just bomb it, I want a very turny crisp short board with as much edge grip as possible. Some other considerations: in PacNW, perfect wide open groomed runs are pretty scarce (Alpine Meadows comes to mind as a example where they are plentiful). I find that on a really grippy stiff big freeride board I'm just way too fast and have to hold back too much times for the sake of safety (mine and others on the slope). This is quite frustrating, and a turny board helps alleviate that - I can experience higher lateral accelerations at lower speeds. The run under chair 8 at Baker (Daytona) is a good example - it was quite a struggle for me this Sat on a BX board, it needs way too much speed to get into the comfort zone. With all the beginners and skiers around, I just coulnd't open it up as much as it deserved to most of the time. Oh, and the Chute (the natural half-pipe close to the base of mid-station of lift 1) was simply a disaster - I had to sideslip almost the entire length of the pipe itself, not enough room/skill/strength/range of motion to turn that monster in two-three boards wide rock lined icy path at 30+ degrees.. Quite humiliating considering all the people on the lift watching you struggle with it The boards that might fit your carving needs.. I'd recommend to try Nitro Darkhorse, Shogun or Naturals, Prior MFR, Salomon Fastback, or, if you can find it - Palmer Carbon Circle (looks like Clutch is the closest analog of CC this year). |
#5
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"Brian" wrote I'm on a Prior Men's Freeride this season, and love it... Check out what I've had to say about it recently in this thread: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...345 30937a7e6 I've read your review, and I agree with almost everything. Tried MFR last April at Whistler (they said it was from their first batch of '05 boards), and apart from what you already said, my impressions we - it has quite a dampened and rubbery feeling to it - edge grip on ice is not very good Other than that, I really enjoyed it, especially after all the uber-stiff stuff I was on before. Had the same feeling as you did when I could push it and get a lot out of it or I slack a bit and not get punished for that. I was surprised at how good it handled very high speeds despite the fact that it's not very stiff, I guess dampening is the compromise they had to make to achieve that trait. The one I was on sucked big time on steep ice, but I wrote that off to it being a demo and edges to be far from perfect. |
#6
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That being the case, what do you see as the tradeoff between a big-
mountain shape and some of the more turny tapered shapes? I haven't ridden a pintial (e.g. Fish, Khyber) yet but I do suspect you'd miss the full-on tail on a board when carving the groomers. I wish I remember more about how you ride in your hard boots @ TLine last May, whether you like to make swooping C-shaped turns or whether you tend to switch edges when point more downhill.. if the former, the pintails might feel like they are realeasing a little early on you? In any case, I think the Incline 168 or equivalent might be a bit much to handle in trees, in soft boots. I've got an older one that has softened somewhat and it's work in trees on softies, fine on plates, and I've got 20 pounds on you. Why not look at a shorter version of one of your big-mountain choices... say an Incline 164 or the equivalent in one of your other brands? A little shorter and softer would let you work it in trees and bumps easier but I think you'd still have plenty of edge length and a big enough sidecut to carve it nicely on the groomed. Or you could get a big-mountain and a pintail, but I digress... You guys get hit by the Pineapple Express as hard as we did? Mt Hood Meadows's base went from an already-pathetic-and-dirt-showing 3 feet to 2 feet in about 24 hours, and when the water runs off I expect another 6 inch loss... I suspect they are closed till the next dump. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr..... -Mike T |
#7
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I think the simple answer is to ride a few and see.
I detest soft boots, but I've ridden the Kyhber and lots of Fish using proper hard bindings. The Kyhber feels (and is, as I rode it) longer than the Fish and less dedicated, but it's still basically short and turny, as opposed to big and cruisy. So you trade acceleration and possibly stability at speed for agility in the trees. Most people get the thing which works where it's toughest, hence the popularity of the Fish in serious powder. But these are pure powder boards: I wouldn't consider riding either in bumps or on hard piste. Of course it could be done, but I wouldn't do it. For piste stuff, you have the same choice (turny or cruisy), but you'd be considering a different set of boards. Here it's more "do you want to be the absolute fastest on the hill, or do you want to ride bumps". Pick a board designed for one or the other. I think you might want to figure out first how many boards you're prepared to carry about with you. If you can stretch to two, then it's easier because you can have a powder board and a piste board... |
#8
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wrote: For piste stuff, you have the same choice (turny or cruisy), but you'd be considering a different set of boards. Here it's more "do you want to be the absolute fastest on the hill, or do you want to ride bumps". Pick a board designed for one or the other. There are boards 'designed' for bumps? I'm game. Who makes a bump board? |
#9
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#10
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