altitude tent bologna

So... just saw that altitude simulating machines can be bought for $1800 -
no tent, just a very uncomfortable face mask to wear. But, now i read they
don't work - http://www.fasterskier.com/training4723.html

any scientists care to chime in ?

Not that i'm buying one - actually training would help me more than
anything.

JKal.

Take a small room in your house/basement.

Cover up the walls and the ceiling with sticky aluminum foil to make
the walls air tight (McMaster has it).

Put rubber gaskets around doors and windows to make windows and doors
air tight.

Drill a hole in the wall/door and install and HVAC fan to exhaust the
air through an Aluminum duct (Ace hardware)

Install your bike trainer in that room.

Install a pressure gauge to see what altitude you are at. A handwatch
with an altimeter will probably work. The foil may puff up a bit, so
you have to play with the the pressure.

Air Density decreases at a rate of 2.9% - 3.0% for each 1000 feet. So
at 7,000 feet (useful trainig altitude) it's a ~20 % drop. The foil
should withstand that.

Enjoy your workout.

Cost: less than $500..

I've done the same thing, but the opposite - to create positive
pressure in my bedroom using filetered air. I don't see why it
wouldnot work for negative pressure. I can't guarantee the results
though, try at your own risk

Speaking of masks - put any HEPA mask on and try riding your bike up a
hill. I've done that, and it's pretty hard. One's face sweats up a lot
though.

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 23:34:27 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Take a small room in your house/basement.

Cover up the walls and the ceiling with sticky aluminum foil to make
the walls air tight (McMaster has it).

Put rubber gaskets around doors and windows to make windows and doors
air tight.

Drill a hole in the wall/door and install and HVAC fan to exhaust the
air through an Aluminum duct (Ace hardware)

Install your bike trainer in that room.

Install a pressure gauge to see what altitude you are at. A handwatch
with an altimeter will probably work. The foil may puff up a bit, so
you have to play with the the pressure.

Air Density decreases at a rate of 2.9% - 3.0% for each 1000 feet. So
at 7,000 feet (useful trainig altitude) it's a ~20 % drop. The foil
should withstand that.

Enjoy your workout.

Cost: less than $500..

I've done the same thing, but the opposite - to create positive
pressure in my bedroom using filetered air. I don't see why it
wouldnot work for negative pressure. I can't guarantee the results
though, try at your own risk

The risk is fairly serious when reducing the available oxygen so the
control system has to be reliable.

In any case, I recall a picture of the Beckie Scott/Justin Wadsworth
bedroom which has what looked like plastic sheeting around all windows
and possibly the walls - I'm pretty sure they were "sleeping high."

JFT

So you adjust the flow to make the altimeter reading stable and "not
too high". You monitor the reading for a week or two to make sure it's
stable. I don't see why the motor would spontaneously start blowing
faster and suffocate you. You can also design a safety valve.

Technology (if what I described can be called technology ) poses
risks, and we entrust our lives to it everyday. Car steering and
breaking comes to mind first.

wrote:
Take a small room in your house/basement.

Cover up the walls and the ceiling with sticky aluminum foil to make
the walls air tight (McMaster has it).

Put rubber gaskets around doors and windows to make windows and doors
air tight.

Drill a hole in the wall/door and install and HVAC fan to exhaust the
air through an Aluminum duct (Ace hardware)

Install your bike trainer in that room.

Install a pressure gauge to see what altitude you are at. A handwatch
with an altimeter will probably work. The foil may puff up a bit, so
you have to play with the the pressure.

Air Density decreases at a rate of 2.9% - 3.0% for each 1000 feet. So
at 7,000 feet (useful trainig altitude) it's a ~20 % drop. The foil
should withstand that.

Enjoy your workout.

Cost: less than $500..

I've done the same thing, but the opposite - to create positive
pressure in my bedroom using filetered air. I don't see why it
wouldnot work for negative pressure. I can't guarantee the results
though, try at your own risk

Speaking of masks - put any HEPA mask on and try riding your bike up a
hill. I've done that, and it's pretty hard. One's face sweats up a lot
though.


You were fine until the HVAC fan - you need to drop about 3.5 psi to
reach a 7000 foot equivalent. No HVAC fan can do that. And think about
what 3psi will do to your windows: a 2 by 3 foot window would be holding
back 3000 pounds. The door latch would be holding back a force of nearly
4 tons. Forget about it.

The way to get the altitude effect is to remove some of the O2 from the
room but keep the total pressure the same.

The real trick is to convince the GF or wife to sleep in the altitude
tent with a wacko citizen racer ;-) Let me know if you solve that one.

Bob

On Nov 16, 9:37 am, Bob wrote:
wrote:
Take a small room in your house/basement.

Cover up the walls and the ceiling with sticky aluminum foil to make
the walls air tight (McMaster has it).

Put rubber gaskets around doors and windows to make windows and doors
air tight.

Drill a hole in the wall/door and install and HVAC fan to exhaust the
air through an Aluminum duct (Ace hardware)
Install your bike trainer in that room.

Install a pressure gauge to see what altitude you are at. A handwatch
with an altimeter will probably work. The foil may puff up a bit, so
you have to play with the the pressure.

Air Density decreases at a rate of 2.9% - 3.0% for each 1000 feet. So
at 7,000 feet (useful trainig altitude) it's a ~20 % drop. The foil
should withstand that.

Enjoy your workout.

Cost: less than $500..

I've done the same thing, but the opposite - to create positive
pressure in my bedroom using filetered air. I don't see why it
wouldnot work for negative pressure. I can't guarantee the results
though, try at your own risk

Speaking of masks - put any HEPA mask on and try riding your bike up a
hill. I've done that, and it's pretty hard. One's face sweats up a lot
though.

You were fine until the HVAC fan - you need to drop about 3.5 psi to
reach a 7000 foot equivalent. No HVAC fan can do that. And think about
what 3psi will do to your windows: a 2 by 3 foot window would be holding
back 3000 pounds. The door latch would be holding back a force of nearly
4 tons. Forget about it.

The way to get the altitude effect is to remove some of the O2 from the
room but keep the total pressure the same.

The real trick is to convince the GF or wife to sleep in the altitude
tent with a wacko citizen racer ;-) Let me know if you solve that one.

Bob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good point Bob. Here's a link to altitiude vs. pressu
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ai...ure-d_462.html

sea level 14.696 psia
3000 ft asl 13.17 psia
5000 ft asl 12.23 psia
7000 ft asl 11.34 psia

Edgar

here's the exact quote from the article.

"Many athletes now use hypoxic tents. However, research has found that less
than 8-10 hours / day in a tent is insufficient to stimulate erythropoiesis.
A daily simulated altitude of 12-16 hours appears sufficient in most
athletes, provided the simulated altitude is 2500-3000 m (Wilber et al).
Most athletes I know using tents do not appear to spend enough hours per day
in their tent to create the optimal effect. 12-16 hours per day?… I hope you
have a lot of books to read! Job? What job? "

So even if i buy one of these i've got to be hooked up for 12-16 hours per
day. Considering the fact that i get 7 hours of sleep, that means 5-9 extra
waking hours to be hooked up to this machine to get any appreciable effect
of RBC stimulation.

Like i said, looks like its just time to start training instead.

JKal.

"32 degrees" wrote in message
...
here's the exact quote from the article.

"Many athletes now use hypoxic tents. However, research has found that
less than 8-10 hours / day in a tent is insufficient to stimulate
erythropoiesis. A daily simulated altitude of 12-16 hours appears
sufficient in most athletes, provided the simulated altitude is 2500-3000
m (Wilber et al). Most athletes I know using tents do not appear to spend
enough hours per day in their tent to create the optimal effect. 12-16
hours per day?… I hope you have a lot of books to read! Job? What job? "

So even if i buy one of these i've got to be hooked up for 12-16 hours per
day. Considering the fact that i get 7 hours of sleep, that means 5-9
extra waking hours to be hooked up to this machine to get any appreciable
effect of RBC stimulation.

Like i said, looks like its just time to start training instead.

JKal.



As one who lives and trains at a higher elevation (Denver, and the foothills
just to the west of town), I've always sort of doubted the purported
"advantage" of altitude. You folks down in the oxygen-rich world are better
off, I believe. You can train with more intensity, since your bodies aren't
half-starved of a vital element. I can barely keep my pulse rate down in
zone 1, on a recovery workout (hiking with poles at around 7000 feet).

If altitude training is so great, why aren't the fastest Nordic skiers from
the Alps and the Rockies?

-Jeff

You're correct, but the point is to live high (up to a point) and train
low. That's why people who don't have that living option have been
messing with oxygen tents, rooms, houses, etc.

RM

"Wily Coyote" wrote:

As one who lives and trains at a higher elevation (Denver, and the
foothills just to the west of town), I've always sort of doubted the
purported "advantage" of altitude. You folks down in the oxygen-rich
world are better off, I believe. You can train with more intensity,
since your bodies aren't half-starved of a vital element. I can
barely keep my pulse rate down in zone 1, on a recovery workout
(hiking with poles at around 7000 feet).

If altitude training is so great, why aren't the fastest Nordic skiers
from the Alps and the Rockies?

-Jeff

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:40:06 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

So you adjust the flow to make the altimeter reading stable and "not
too high". You monitor the reading for a week or two to make sure it's
stable. I don't see why the motor would spontaneously start blowing
faster and suffocate you. You can also design a safety valve.

Technology (if what I described can be called technology ) poses
risks, and we entrust our lives to it everyday. Car steering and
breaking comes to mind first.

I wouldnt' built those two items myself because my skill is low.