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#11
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Ski Marathons
against the resistance of the snow
Gene, come on, the friction of pavement is greater than that of the snow, no matter how you put it, I don't see runners "gliding" downhill on pavement better than skiers. No matter how much concentration one needs, downhills in XC racing are the recovery phase. I can (could) ski the Birkie (50K) in under 2:30. I would be lucky to break 3 hrs in a running marathon. |
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#12
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#13
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Ski Marathons
The key point is that both activities tries to optimally use all the major muscle groups, whereas a (flat) distance runner is of course limited to the energy output of his/her legs. Yes |
#14
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Ski Marathons
On Wed, 2 Feb 2011 21:47:46 -0800 (PST)
" wrote: against the resistance of the snow Gene, come on, the friction of pavement is greater than that of the snow, no matter how you put it, I don't see runners "gliding" downhill on pavement better than skiers. No matter how much concentration one needs, downhills in XC racing are the recovery phase. I can (could) ski the Birkie (50K) in under 2:30. I would be lucky to break 3 hrs in a running marathon. The paradox is that because primarily one muscle group is used less can be accomplished, fatigue sets in earlier per pace, at least for most of us. Skiing uses more muscle groups, but switches emphasis enough per terrain to compensate overall. I hope you're talking tongue in cheek about the effects on effort of the friction of asphalt. Even the best skiers have to "work" most downhills, mentally and physically, while good runners are able to let go. Different in trail running. Gene |
#15
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#16
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#17
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Even the best skiers have to "work" most
downhills, Gene, actually I was no talking tongue in cheek,sorry if I made it sound that way. Just what kind of downhills are we talking? Considering the Birkie a standard racing course it's downhills are there for recovery. Unless they decide include a giant slalom course along the way. |
#18
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Ski Marathons
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 23:36:37 -0800 (PST)
" wrote: Even the best skiers have to "work" most downhills, Gene, actually I was no talking tongue in cheek,sorry if I made it sound that way. Just what kind of downhills are we talking? Considering the Birkie a standard racing course it's downhills are there for recovery. Unless they decide include a giant slalom course along the way. When you speak of recovery, what exactly are you referring to? In talking about muscle groups, I've been focusing on propulsion and have left aside the heart. That is, I'm not equating pulse with work, tho the two are obviously related. Relatively lower pulse does not equal rest, or the absence of substantial energy expenditure. Even on the best powder day, most of (American) Birkie's downhills require some attention and maneuvering. In other conditions, a fair of energy expenditure can be required (I'm recalling the left sweeping downhill at 7.5k(?), where on some days it's been a bloody gulch for anything but the very best skiers). If you watch the videos of WC courses, many of the downhills are not even relative freebies. And the way Justyne Kowalczyk skis them... It would be good if we found some data on this. Gene |
#20
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Ski Marathons
For a ski marathon newbie but a run marathon vet, I'd say that skiing
will shock you much less but work you lots more. Skiing is easy on the joints and is low in shock value, but energy consumption for skiing could somewhat be measured in what you need to eat. I think you need to eat quite a bit more in skiing compared to running. And you can handle somewhat more solid food due to the smoothness of the action. The rests of downhills do involve some legwork and static hold-strain -- but the heart slows down. This lets you then work it even harder afterward. I think that Gene has a point about downhills being lots of work *of a kind* especially at the WC level. Some cit skiers like to rest the downhills, and I do too if I'm happy with the group I'm in, but I also have sometimes kept the hammer down on the downs if they have tricky turns or chances to gain time and jamming the downhill corners hard and feeling plenty of leg quiver after they were over. Skiing is somewhat famous for the bleery uphill slathers you get in because you can recover on the down. In a running race you can't dig in as deep because you never get to recover. Cycling might be even more famous for the going-insane portions because of the sometimes known chances for rest. They go thru a lot of eating in an event, too. When I did a big trail ski day the other week, we each ate 5 heavy pizza slices and a ton of energy bars and drinks. We did a lot of WORK that day! Lots of glide, too... Lots of big hills... |
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