Bummer that US skiers are in first "suspensions" sweep...

Kikkan and Zimmerman are suspended for a few days, it looks like, due
to high hemo.

The coaches are saying dehydration and alt-tents can cause this.
--That's lame if such factors can lead to readings outside the range.
You'd think they'd have a test to measure dehydrationp---if someone is
sick and dried out or something from tons of air travel they're not
going to be skiing faster than others in an unfair way---they'd be
slower til they got back to normal. You'd think they would only be
looking for illegal speed gain readings. Or maybe the dehydration
explanation isn't likely?

--JP

It is a valid explanation. Just think about it. They've been training
at altitude, which is going to increase their rbc. Some individuals
have a level which are genetically higher than average... natural
variation, which may help explain why they are endurance athletes in
the first place. They come in from a training session a bit dehydrated
- which means that their blood volume is down and red blood cell
concentration is up - and someone is waiting for them to take a blood
sample. If you already have naturally high levels which are already
close to the limit, such as the case for Sean Crooks, which the
Canadian federation has known all along, chances are you will exceed
the limit. Perhaps the limit needs to be stretched to a bit, because
every time this happens the media jumps to the conclusion that epo is
involved, and even officials who don't understand the situation make
stupid statements.

Chris

This time officials have made clear it is a health issue, not a doping
case. I've read that the Germans have appealed, claiming that the
higher values were known.

I've long argued that anti-drug social witchhunting/control and
legitimate competition control have become entirely intertwined.
Marijuana is the clearest example of the former, while the skeleton
rider who's been using an anti-balding drug (documented) is a good
example within the competition control realm. Naivte or stupidity on
the guy's part, yes, but that's not the way WADA looks at it. It
appears to me that the same kind of perspective has made officials
and scientists reluctant to examine the realm of human variation and
the effects of training, such as show up in high hematocrit levels.

Gene


"cpella" wrote:

It is a valid explanation. Just think about it. They've been training
at altitude, which is going to increase their rbc. Some individuals
have a level which are genetically higher than average... natural
variation, which may help explain why they are endurance athletes in
the first place. They come in from a training session a bit dehydrated
- which means that their blood volume is down and red blood cell
concentration is up - and someone is waiting for them to take a blood
sample. If you already have naturally high levels which are already
close to the limit, such as the case for Sean Crooks, which the
Canadian federation has known all along, chances are you will exceed
the limit. Perhaps the limit needs to be stretched to a bit, because
every time this happens the media jumps to the conclusion that epo is
involved, and even officials who don't understand the situation make
stupid statements.

Chris

I say let the banned skeleton rider back in. As for the xc athletes...
How stupid could someone be to cheat? The new tests are much better at
detecting who's doping. No expert here but wouldn't a high limit set
for hemo values already have altitude tents, plane trips and
dehydration factored in? Athletes will continue to cheat... In bike
racing, you get caught for doping and your welcomed back when your
suspension is over. It doesn't work that way for skiers. Just ask
Muhlegg, Myllyla, Egoroava et al. I think it would be even worse for a
U S or Canadian skier. Smoking and snortng illegal substances is
forgiven quickly in the NBA and NFL. Those usually aren't performance
enhancing though. Steroids, that's another thing...

J Tegeder
"Keep training, lycra never lies!" JT

On 10 Feb 2006 07:30:25 -0800, wrote:

Kikkan and Zimmerman are suspended for a few days, it looks like, due
to high hemo.

The coaches are saying dehydration and alt-tents can cause this.
--That's lame if such factors can lead to readings outside the range.

The whole point of altitute tents is to drive up hematocrit.

JFT

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....to a certain point.

I'd think that the athletes/coaches would be doing their own tests. How
complicated is a hemo test? If you're likely to go over the limit, man,
you'd be a fool to let yourself get dehydrated---cripes, didn't they
miss their chances for some early races? It seems like a DISASTROUS
case of mismanagement. Could it possibly come out of the blue for these
folks? "Gosh, I have such high hemo? I never knew! Whups, it was too
high? Weird. Oh well! I guess I miss my first race...that I trained my
whole life for."

Not controlling for such variables seems totally lame.

Reminds me a little bit of the part of Pete's Momentum book where he's
overwhelmed by the noise at the Norwegian Olys. It's surprising that a
prep plan could overlook noise. Basketball players have to deal with
noise. Other big races have pretty big noise---the Olys in Norway would
obviously be deafening---to have it totally unmoor you due to lack of
planning seems like, well, bad planning.

Heck, I only did a couple races with big noise and I noticed instantly
as a factor---like when a helicopter came over us I couldn't sense my
heart-rate anymore and felt a little lost. Oh well, maybe they prepared
but not enough. It seems a fairly simple fix: ski around with a Walkman
with loud crowd noise on it. (Not rock'n'roll.)

As regards hemo-dehydration: man, drink water on the plane if you're
close to a cut-off, or, well, lose an Olympic chance. It's just nutty.

Also, if it's just a health suspension---like they get a checkup and
the doc says "Hey, this skier is dehydrated and shouldn't ski!", well,
that's also a case of bad planning. You want to arrive exactly ready
with all ducks in a row---or you shouldn't even be there. Oh well. Is
Kikkan a first-time Oly? Maybe some folks just get lost in the shuffle
and forget to take care of themselves, and this is considered an
"experience" Olys. I thought that era was OVER, though, considering the
wretched state of Oly finances.

It's just a bummer. --JP

On 11 Feb 2006 11:54:09 -0800, wrote:

didn't they
miss their chances for some early races?

No, they weren't planning on doing the pursuit.

JFT

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Yeah, "we didn't want to race anyway" and "lost our water
bottles"---great reasons to get suspended. Good thing no one who skied
got sick and they weren't needed as replacements. Well, let's hope they
all can get beyond it quickly. JP

Is Pound the pig he usually seems to be or onto something? WADA also
just appealed the reduction of Justyna Kowalczyk's (?) penalty
from two yrs to one by the sports court, even tho the drugging was shown
to be the doing of someone else or inadvertant or something, in an
anti-inflammatory she was given.

Gene


Skiers must have taken drugs: WADA

By Karolos Grohmann

TURIN (Reuters) - Several cross-country skiers who registered high
hemoglobin levels days before the Turin Winter Games opened must have
taken banned substances, World Anti-Doping Agency chief Dick Pound said
on Thursday.

"Frankly, we think we are dealing with doping," Pound, also an
International Olympic Committee (IOC) member, told Reuters.

"It is too much of a coincidence to have 12 athletes with hugely high
Hb (hemoglobin) levels just before the Games."

The IOC is responsible for drugs testing during the Games and WADA's
role is to operate as an independent observer monitoring doping
procedures from notification to sample collection and analysis.

A total of 12 athletes, all cross-country skiers, registered high Hb
values and were suspended by the International Skiing Federation for
five days due to health concerns.

The FIS said high altitude training was the most likely cause for the
rise in the Hb level.

The skiers were suspended pending re-testing before their competitions.
Several of them had reduced levels after re-testing and were allowed to
compete again.

Pound, a practising lawyer in his native Canada, said the FIS was
brushing the problem aside by calling it a health issue.

"I think we are going to have another look (after the Games). It is
easier to deal with it as a health problem than doping problem."

"They (FIS) might be afraid that they are not able to prove that they
were drugged."

FIS secretary general Sarah Lewis reaffirmed their position that the
blood levels were related to altitude.

We have an extremely close relationship with WADA, they are not
questioning our work," Lewis said.

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:59:06 -0600, Gene Goldenfeld
wrote:


"It is too much of a coincidence to have 12 athletes with hugely high
Hb (hemoglobin) levels just before the Games."

It's not a coincidence -- it's the nature of top level sport. If I
was an athlete heading to a big event, I'd try to get as close to the
limit as a could without going over it. Given the number of total
athletes, a number of them are going to make mistakes and go to high.

JFT


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