ObSki: another run with flatboarding

VtSkier wrote:

snip great post

Many of us have reached this in skiing. It happened quite by
chance. I know I take a great joy in the act of skiing. I am
hardly ever tired after I do a 9 hour day on the hill. I am
enervated by the activity.

I don't think you really mean that:

Definitions of enervated on the Web:

* adynamic: lacking strength or vigor
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Perhaps it was energised you were thinking of ?

On May 16, 5:36 pm, VtSkier wrote:
Evojeesus wrote:
On May 16, 2:49 pm, taichiskiing

Wedeln, as practiced by the Austrian instructors we had
around here ca.1963, was a grandstanding move with little
application beyond a moderate groomed slope. Not unlike
Stein's Mambo turns and, indeed, ballet.

Ok (yawn).

I like skiing functional, minimalist and fast.

Then you'd like skiing with Ichy. That's him for sure.

Maybe, but who's featured in his videoclips then?

What's a banked turn?

Body pretty much in line with skis instead of fall line.
Body facing direction of turn and tilted totally to the inside
of the turn. Works for high speed carving on groom.

No hip-angulation?

"Normal" turns require body facing the fall line (as much as
possible), shoulders down the hill (or outside the turn), knees
and hips up the hill (or inside the turn).

Yes.

His upper body "crosses over" when he turns (or his
legs "cross under" depending on POV).

Well of course, are there even options to this? Straightlining??

Poles, no poles, poles get in the way of beginners especially
children.

I'm sure that's correct.

In my view, Taichi is a mind-set rather than a physical technique.

Does that mindset work all over the mountain? Judging by the videos on
the web I would not go on an off-piste tour with someone of that
ability, or are the videos somehow misleading?

Skiing technique is pretty much invariable because of the laws of
physics and the geometry built into skis. You must cause the
skis to do a certain thing to get a desired result. Period.
Because of the mechanics of the human body, there are a limited
number of moves available to get the ski to do a certain thing,
to get a desired result.

Yes. I would certainly be interested in the results one can attain
with the "flatboarding" mindset all over the mountain. The videos
don't portray this.

Okay, so I've become and Ichy fan. The reasons are stated.

So you have found a spiritual mentor for skiing but can the guy ski
all over the mountain? And why all the patronizing BS about the spirit
of gravity and freeing one's mind?

He occasionally has a bit of trouble with the language as he
wasn't born to English, and there is no harder language to learn
as a second language than English (except maybe Navajo).

What?? English is probably one of the simplest languages grammatically
in the world.

BrritSki wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

snip great post

Many of us have reached this in skiing. It happened quite by
chance. I know I take a great joy in the act of skiing. I am
hardly ever tired after I do a 9 hour day on the hill. I am
enervated by the activity.

I don't think you really mean that:

Definitions of enervated on the Web:

* adynamic: lacking strength or vigor
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Perhaps it was energised you were thinking of ?

Ah, yes. Thanks to one of the Queen's subject,
for knowing the Queen's English better than a poor
colonial.

Evojeesus wrote:
On May 16, 5:36 pm, VtSkier wrote:
Evojeesus wrote:
On May 16, 2:49 pm, taichiskiing

Wedeln, as practiced by the Austrian instructors we had
around here ca.1963, was a grandstanding move with little
application beyond a moderate groomed slope. Not unlike
Stein's Mambo turns and, indeed, ballet.

Ok (yawn).

Yawn indeed. That's why any of these things
aren't seen much any more. They aren't really
effective ways to ski. Pretty, maybe, but not
effective.

I like skiing functional, minimalist and fast.

Then you'd like skiing with Ichy. That's him for sure.

Maybe, but who's featured in his videoclips then?

Often him, but sometimes a student. Don't forget, he's
trying to "demonstrate" something that really isn't very
different from what we all do. If you see exaggerated hand/
arm movements I think the desire is to focus away from
heavy thought about what you are doing with the desire
to "make it light" and "to let it happen." That's not
very well expressed but coming close.

What's a banked turn?

You might also look at LAL's reply to this. My objection
to LAL is that what might be considered a banked course
isn't usually found where most of us ski.

Body pretty much in line with skis instead of fall line.
Body facing direction of turn and tilted totally to the inside
of the turn. Works for high speed carving on groom.

No hip-angulation?

Right.

"Normal" turns require body facing the fall line (as much as
possible), shoulders down the hill (or outside the turn), knees
and hips up the hill (or inside the turn).

Yes.

His upper body "crosses over" when he turns (or his
legs "cross under" depending on POV).

Well of course, are there even options to this? Straightlining??

See LAL for "straightlining".

Poles, no poles, poles get in the way of beginners especially
children.

I'm sure that's correct.

In my view, Taichi is a mind-set rather than a physical technique.

Does that mindset work all over the mountain? Judging by the videos on
the web I would not go on an off-piste tour with someone of that
ability, or are the videos somehow misleading?

Skiing technique is pretty much invariable because of the laws of
physics and the geometry built into skis. You must cause the
skis to do a certain thing to get a desired result. Period.
Because of the mechanics of the human body, there are a limited
number of moves available to get the ski to do a certain thing,
to get a desired result.

Yes. I would certainly be interested in the results one can attain
with the "flatboarding" mindset all over the mountain. The videos
don't portray this.

As I pointed out, I'm not really sure what "flatboarding" is.
Ichy pretty much skis like the rest of us. I don't think
"flatboarding" is a mindset. Taichi, zen concentration/
non-concentration is (are) a mindset.

Okay, so I've become and Ichy fan. The reasons are stated.

So you have found a spiritual mentor for skiing but can the guy ski
all over the mountain? And why all the patronizing BS about the spirit
of gravity and freeing one's mind?

Yeah, the guy can ski all over the mountain. What Ichy is doing,
I think (my opinion, Ichy, correct me if I'm wrong), is looking for
a way to teach, more than a way to ski. He wants to give some feeling
of the connection between body, brain and mind as it relates to
skiing. This is already done in fencing, archery and bonsai.
I think he is trying to build a different vocabulary to use for
forms and movements that are familiar to us by the names we know
so that his clients don't make the connection with what they might
consider difficult things to learn. Well, that's my take anyway.

He occasionally has a bit of trouble with the language as he
wasn't born to English, and there is no harder language to learn
as a second language than English (except maybe Navajo).

What?? English is probably one of the simplest languages grammatically
in the world.

Yeah, but...
The vocabulary is a bitch. It's huge, it isn't spelled the way
it's pronounced, many words have multiple meanings and not to
mention idiomatic English that doesn't even make sense in standard
English.

Heyyy, wass happenin' bro?
Translation. Hello, how are you, I hope you are well since
the last time I saw you.

VtSkier wrote:
What Ichy is doing,
I think (my opinion, Ichy, correct me if I'm wrong), is looking for
a way to teach, more than a way to ski. He wants to give some feeling
of the connection between body, brain and mind as it relates to
skiing.

He's not just trying to reinvent skiing, he's trying to reinvent the
well established Zen skiing paradigm[*].

Try
"Skiing Zen: Searching for the Spirituality of Sport" by Rick Phipps.

And the still excellent
"Inner Skiing" by W. Timothy Gallwey and Robert Kriegel
which everyone should read.

There's also Kristen Ulmer's and Genpo Roshi's "Zen Master’s Ski-to-Live
Clinic"


[*] Gosh-o-willies, I haven't had occasion to use "paradigm" in a
sentence since I retired; formerly it was 15% of my vocabulary.

VtSkier wrote:
Evojeesus wrote:
On May 16, 5:36 pm, VtSkier wrote:
Evojeesus wrote:

Wedeln, as practiced by the Austrian instructors we had
around here ca.1963, was a grandstanding move with little
application beyond a moderate groomed slope. Not unlike
Stein's Mambo turns and, indeed, ballet.

Ok (yawn).

Yawn indeed. That's why any of these things
aren't seen much any more. They aren't really
effective ways to ski. Pretty, maybe, but not
effective.


I've never found Wedeln to be pretty. Maybe it's because it's usually
practiced by 60 something guys in one-pieces, and I'm not into that.
NTTAWWT.

Stein's Mambo is actually a named run at one of the local molehills.
Not one of my favorites by a long stretch, if that counts for anything.

Ski Ballet and the more recent Ski-dancing on those ski blades can be
"pretty" I suppose, but it's not the kind of pretty that I find
aesthetically appealing. Too much like ice-skating, or "bad taste on
ice" as it's known in my house.

The one time I witnessed Tai-Chi skiing in person at Alta, the
youngwoman doing it was quite pretty, albeit in a hippy-chick sort of
way. She was skiing stuff backwards that I found slightly challenging
forward, and doing it with grace and ease. Her partner, a 50-ish
overweight dude just looked silly. But he seemed to be having fun, so
who am I to tell him to do anything differently?

I tried Wedeln once. *That* ended badly.

//Walt

lal_truckee wrote:
VtSkier wrote:
What Ichy is doing,
I think (my opinion, Ichy, correct me if I'm wrong), is looking for
a way to teach, more than a way to ski. He wants to give some feeling
of the connection between body, brain and mind as it relates to
skiing.

He's not just trying to reinvent skiing, he's trying to reinvent the
well established Zen skiing paradigm[*].

Try
"Skiing Zen: Searching for the Spirituality of Sport" by Rick Phipps.

And the still excellent
"Inner Skiing" by W. Timothy Gallwey and Robert Kriegel
which everyone should read.

There's also Kristen Ulmer's and Genpo Roshi's "Zen Master’s Ski-to-Live
Clinic"



[*] Gosh-o-willies, I haven't had occasion to use "paradigm" in a
sentence since I retired; formerly it was 15% of my vocabulary.

I guess it's time for a paradigm shift here.

It's warm, I should get out my bicycle and motorcycle and
see what pavement can do for me that there isn't enough snow
to do at the moment.

lal_truckee wrote:
[*] Gosh-o-willies, I haven't had occasion to use "paradigm" in a
sentence since I retired;

Well, it has been a long time since you could buy much of anything for
twenty cents.

//Walt

Walt wrote:
Stein's Mambo is actually a named run at one of the local molehills.
Not one of my favorites by a long stretch, if that counts for anything.
//Walt

Mambo! That would be located at my beloved Loveland. First & Last run I
ski
EVERY day I ski there. Also, the first run they get open in October.

Sam "Still have 2.5 weeks of skiing at A-Basin" Seiber

VtSkier wrote:
BrritSki wrote:

VtSkier wrote:

snip great post

Many of us have reached this in skiing. It happened quite by
chance. I know I take a great joy in the act of skiing. I am
hardly ever tired after I do a 9 hour day on the hill. I am
enervated by the activity.


I don't think you really mean that:

Definitions of enervated on the Web:

* adynamic: lacking strength or vigor
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Perhaps it was energised you were thinking of ?


Ah, yes. Thanks to one of the Queen's subject,
for knowing the Queen's English better than a poor
colonial.

Nothing to do with colonials, it's a common mistake in the UK too.
But I don't make the mistake of thinking we speak the same language