skating on classic ski

Hi all,

I've been doing classic skiing for some 15 years now.
I don't do any races or such, I 'm just skiing for fun on the weekends.
From time to time, I just tried to 'skate' with my classic ski (10 year old
Fischer nowax), but I encountered two problems:
a) When I compare my traces to those of virtually all other skaters, my V's
are significantly narrower than those of the others. I suppose that's
connected to:
b) when pushing, the ski loses grip and slips orthogonally to the gliding
direction (- I get out of the rhythm, want to move forward and push with
less force - the V gets narrower).

Is this a problem of the material or of the technique? Do skating ski have a
harder edges than classic ski that prevent them from slipping? Is the angle
between boot and ski different at skating ski for a better grip?

I'd like to play a little bit with skating, and as I have to buy new boots
anyway I'm thinking about getting a pair of combi boots. Would that make
much difference for skating compared to my old, very soft boots? Do these
combi boots have decisive drawbacks when doing classic?
I also though about getting a pair of used skating ski, would it make sense
to use these with classic boots?

Thanks for all tips,

Sebastian

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 20:18:03 +0100, Sebastian
wrote:

Hi all,

I've been doing classic skiing for some 15 years now.
I don't do any races or such, I 'm just skiing for fun on the weekends.
From time to time, I just tried to 'skate' with my classic ski (10 year old
Fischer nowax), but I encountered two problems:
a) When I compare my traces to those of virtually all other skaters, my V's
are significantly narrower than those of the others. I suppose that's
connected to:
b) when pushing, the ski loses grip and slips orthogonally to the gliding
direction (- I get out of the rhythm, want to move forward and push with
less force - the V gets narrower).

Is this a problem of the material or of the technique? Do skating ski have a
harder edges than classic ski that prevent them from slipping? Is the angle
between boot and ski different at skating ski for a better grip?

I'd like to play a little bit with skating, and as I have to buy new boots
anyway I'm thinking about getting a pair of combi boots. Would that make
much difference for skating compared to my old, very soft boots? Do these
combi boots have decisive drawbacks when doing classic?
I also though about getting a pair of used skating ski, would it make sense
to use these with classic boots?

Thanks for all tips,

Sebastian


For what its worth my son, who used to ski competively in high school,
preferred his combi boots for classic rather than using his classic boots.
He didn't like them nearly as much for skating though, and used a Pilot
system boot.


g.c.

I'll take a crack at it:


Hi all,

I've been doing classic skiing for some 15 years now.
I don't do any races or such, I 'm just skiing for fun on the weekends.
From time to time, I just tried to 'skate' with my classic ski (10 year old
Fischer nowax), but I encountered two problems:
a) When I compare my traces to those of virtually all other skaters, my V's
are significantly narrower than those of the others. I suppose that's
connected to:
b) when pushing, the ski loses grip and slips orthogonally to the gliding
direction (- I get out of the rhythm, want to move forward and push with
less force - the V gets narrower).

Is this a problem of the material or of the technique?

Hard to say without watching you ski. Normally, the faster you ski, the
narrower the V. My guess is that you're using a lot of arm strength and not as
much leg as compared to someone with pure skating equipment. (Skating's big
advantage).

Do skating ski have a
harder edges than classic ski that prevent them from slipping? Is the angle
between boot and ski different at skating ski for a better grip?

The skating ski is shaped different because it has different problems to
address. Edge control and stability were big concerns in 'the early days' when
everyone was skating on classic equipment. So, 'no' the angle between boot and
ski isn't different, but the skate ski and classic ski are built differently.


I'd like to play a little bit with skating, and as I have to buy new boots
anyway I'm thinking about getting a pair of combi boots. Would that make
much difference for skating compared to my old, very soft boots?

Skating boots give a whale of a lot more ankle support than classic boots. I've
never used combi boots, but I imagine you'll give up some classic performance
to gain some skating control. It's all about compromises.
When I'm out striding, I'll skate from track to track, or across well beating
intersections, but efficiency is WAY down compared to my pure skating
equipment.

Do these
combi boots have decisive drawbacks when doing classic?

The combi boots are stiffer, so you may feel it while striding, I don't know
from personal experience. Maybe someone else has input.

I also though about getting a pair of used skating ski, would it make sense
to use these with classic boots?

While you can skate with classic boots, you'll be much happier with skating
boots for skating, classic boots for striding. It will take a bigger bite out
of your wallet, but put a bigger smile on your face. It's like going for a 70
mile bike ride on your mountain bike ... you can do it, but it's more fun on a
road bike. :^]

Drive over to the local ski shop, leave your wallet at home, and poke around.
Tell them what you have in mind. Maybe get some catalogs from online stores.
That should give yous some direction.

You should be able to get an entry level skating package for around $350,
maybe less, that will last you for 15 + years. Used skis are an option, but
with new boots, bindings, and poles (longer ones), you'll get nickel and dimed
to about that anyway.

More questions? Ask away !

John Wilke
Milwaukee

"Sebastian" wrote in message
...
I'll only attempt an answer at your last questions:

I'd like to play a little bit with skating, and as I have to buy new boots
anyway I'm thinking about getting a pair of combi boots. Would that make
much difference for skating compared to my old, very soft boots? Do these
combi boots have decisive drawbacks when doing classic?

A combi boot is MUCH better for skating than a pure classic boot. On the
other hand, they do work well for classic too. From what I've seen of my
kids' combi boots, they are often (usually?) pretty much a classic boot with
a plastic cuff added. Many have a removable plastic cuff and I'd recommend
that if you want to do some pure classic skiing. My wife and kids skate and
classic all the time in their combi boots, and enjoy themselves and do well.
The sole might be a little stiffer than the normal classic sole, but it's
well within what you need for classic. For example, the Alpina classic boot
sole is very flexible. The Salomon classic boot tends to be much stiffer.
The Alpina and Rossi combi boots that I'm familiar with are a *little*
stiffer than the Alpina classics, but not as stiff as the Salomon classics -
again, well within "normal" for classicing. They are, however, quite a bit
more flexible than any skating boot.

My wife and kids both have used top of the line Alpina combi boots with
removable cuff. If you take the cuff off, they are virtually identical to
the comparable Alpina classic boot (but they never find they need to take
the cuff off). They've always done well skating and striding with their
combi boots, although a dedicated skating boot is probably better for a
"serious" skier. So, my opinion is that you're on exactly the right track,
boot-wise.

I also though about getting a pair of used skating ski, would it make
sense
to use these with classic boots?

They will probably work better for skating than your current waxless skis,
even with the old classic boots. But I think that if you can afford it, buy
the best fitting combi boots that you can afford (probably less than $175)
and also a used pair of skating skis with a compatible binding. You'll
probably find you now have a better pair of classic boots and a very
adequate set up for skating. You'll have a lot of fun.

Hope this helps.

DJ

I would not recommend skating on a classic ski - the sidewalls are not meant
for those types of side loads.

That being said I learned to skate on a pair of Elan classic racing skis,
and the sidewalls blew out after several seasons.

Compare that to a pair of original Fischer RCS Skate skis purchased in 1988
and ski on 30X per year and race on. They are fast and in reasonable shape.
Err... the p-tex is now wearing thin on the bases though.

Regarding Combi boots I would say go for it as the high cuff gives a little
support and at least the Salomons I own have a sole stiffness very close to
the classic version.

Regards G

"Sebastian" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I've been doing classic skiing for some 15 years now.
I don't do any races or such, I 'm just skiing for fun on the weekends.
From time to time, I just tried to 'skate' with my classic ski (10 year
old
Fischer nowax), but I encountered two problems:
a) When I compare my traces to those of virtually all other skaters, my
V's
are significantly narrower than those of the others. I suppose that's
connected to:
b) when pushing, the ski loses grip and slips orthogonally to the gliding
direction (- I get out of the rhythm, want to move forward and push with
less force - the V gets narrower).

Is this a problem of the material or of the technique? Do skating ski have
a
harder edges than classic ski that prevent them from slipping? Is the
angle
between boot and ski different at skating ski for a better grip?

I'd like to play a little bit with skating, and as I have to buy new boots
anyway I'm thinking about getting a pair of combi boots. Would that make
much difference for skating compared to my old, very soft boots? Do these
combi boots have decisive drawbacks when doing classic?
I also though about getting a pair of used skating ski, would it make
sense
to use these with classic boots?

Thanks for all tips,

Sebastian