Damn it's hard to buy Nordic Skis Nowadays!

The spousal unit really hates her 16 year old Asolo Blisterfield II
boots, and wanted NNN-BC boots and bindings. She also really needs
lighter skis than her Europa 99's for the kind of stuff she does.

There used to be at least 10 stores selling nordic skis on the San
Francisco Peninsula, including North Face (x2), Sierra Designs, Western
Mountaineering (x2), REI, Any Mountain, Helm of Sun Valley, The Co-op,
Mel Cotton's, and several other stores that I can't remember the names
of. Most of those stores are out of business, and of the remaining ones
no longer carry nordic skis. Only _one_ of the four REI stores on the
Peninsula carriers Nordic skis, and their selection and stock is awful.
I ended up driving 50 miles to Berkeley to go to Marmot Mountain Works,
a store that's a real PITA because it's busy but has only one employee
working the sales floor, going nuts with all the people bombarding him
for help. I also got a new pair for myself at Marmot, but they were out
of 3 pin bindings so I went to REI in Berkeley to buy bindings because
the REI near me in Saratoga ran out of bindings (both NNN-BC and 3 pin).

It's pretty bad that an area with a population of 3.5 million people
can't support a single actual mountaineering store.

On Mar 6, 9:01*pm, SMS wrote:
The spousal unit really hates her 16 year old Asolo Blisterfield II
boots, and wanted NNN-BC boots and bindings. She also really needs
lighter skis than her Europa 99's for the kind of stuff she does.

There used to be at least 10 stores selling nordic skis on the San
Francisco Peninsula, including North Face (x2), Sierra Designs, Western
Mountaineering (x2), REI, Any Mountain, Helm of Sun Valley, The Co-op,
Mel Cotton's, and several other stores that I can't remember the names
of. Most of those stores are out of business, and of the remaining ones
no longer carry nordic skis. Only _one_ of the four REI stores on the
Peninsula carriers Nordic skis, and their selection and stock is awful.
I ended up driving 50 miles to Berkeley to go to Marmot Mountain Works,
a store that's a real PITA because it's busy but has only one employee
working the sales floor, going nuts with all the people bombarding him
for help. I also got a new pair for myself at Marmot, but they were out
of 3 pin bindings so I went to REI in Berkeley to buy bindings because
the REI near me in Saratoga ran out of bindings (both NNN-BC and 3 pin).

It's pretty bad that an area with a population of 3.5 million people
can't support a single actual mountaineering store.

Interesting report!

Yeah, it's weird times for XC.

I also note that Nordic does not equal Mountaineering.

We, too, used ot have several shops in our mid-Michigan town that sold
a decent assortment of XC skis... Now it's ONE.

Winters have been pretty darn good latey.

We DO have a mountaineering shop, though. Just no mountains within
1000 miles. The USA is weird.

And snowshoes are available. We have 2 decent snowshoeing days a year.
And 30 decent XC ski days. Within 10 miles of town we have 100 miles
of good trails of all kinds of activities, incl. XC ski., of course.

--JP

Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com) wrote:

Interesting report!

Yeah, it's weird times for XC.

I also note that Nordic does not equal Mountaineering.

Yes, this is true. The store in Berkeley has both mountaineering skis
and XC skis for tracks, skating, and light off-track use (i.e. the
Fischer Country Crown).

It's been an amazingly good snow year. I guess REI ran out of most
everything. When REI started expanding its retail locations beyond
Berkeley it was the end of most of the other outdoor gear stores. I'm as
guilty as anyone of going to REI, because unlike many of the
competitors, REI was smart enough to not keep banker's hours. I used to
be able to walk to a North Face store, but since it closed at 6:00 p.m.
there was no point in going there after work.

One thing in the trend of stores getting out of x-c skiing is that the
equipment has become so specialized and expensive over the past two to
three decades. The overhead is enormous to the degree one stocks
beyond the lower end of lines, and the dollar has been on the low side
for a good decade.

Gene


On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 18:32:47 -0800 (PST)
"Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote:

On Mar 6, 9:01*pm, SMS wrote:
The spousal unit really hates her 16 year old Asolo Blisterfield II
boots, and wanted NNN-BC boots and bindings. She also really needs
lighter skis than her Europa 99's for the kind of stuff she does.

There used to be at least 10 stores selling nordic skis on the San
Francisco Peninsula, including North Face (x2), Sierra Designs,
Western Mountaineering (x2), REI, Any Mountain, Helm of Sun Valley,
The Co-op, Mel Cotton's, and several other stores that I can't
remember the names of. Most of those stores are out of business,
and of the remaining ones no longer carry nordic skis. Only _one_
of the four REI stores on the Peninsula carriers Nordic skis, and
their selection and stock is awful. I ended up driving 50 miles to
Berkeley to go to Marmot Mountain Works, a store that's a real PITA
because it's busy but has only one employee working the sales
floor, going nuts with all the people bombarding him for help. I
also got a new pair for myself at Marmot, but they were out of 3
pin bindings so I went to REI in Berkeley to buy bindings because
the REI near me in Saratoga ran out of bindings (both NNN-BC and 3
pin).

It's pretty bad that an area with a population of 3.5 million people
can't support a single actual mountaineering store.

Interesting report!

Yeah, it's weird times for XC.

I also note that Nordic does not equal Mountaineering.

We, too, used ot have several shops in our mid-Michigan town that sold
a decent assortment of XC skis... Now it's ONE.

Winters have been pretty darn good latey.

We DO have a mountaineering shop, though. Just no mountains within
1000 miles. The USA is weird.

And snowshoes are available. We have 2 decent snowshoeing days a year.
And 30 decent XC ski days. Within 10 miles of town we have 100 miles
of good trails of all kinds of activities, incl. XC ski., of course.

--JP

wrote:
One thing in the trend of stores getting out of x-c skiing is that the
equipment has become so specialized and expensive over the past two to
three decades. The overhead is enormous to the degree one stocks
beyond the lower end of lines, and the dollar has been on the low side
for a good decade.

Yeah, the high end has essentially become more like downhill ski
equipment, but sold in volumes so low that it's enormously expensive.
But the low end should not be so difficult. Even when they close it out
at the end of the season for 40% off, they still have positive margins.

There's a catch-22 on the lower end as well. One needs employees who
know enough about those skis and the associated equipment to get the
right things into customers hands, yet those type of people are
typically more interested in working at a specialized shop. The buyer
of low end is in a sense no less serious than the upper end, and it's
easy for a shop to get a reputation for not knowing what they're doing
(e.g., REI). A specialized shop ends up being better at filling
the low end needs. The exceptions are large multi-faceted urban stores
like Hoigaards and (and to some extent) Joe's in the Twin Cities, where
they have the means to hire specialists and set up dedicated
departments.

Gene

On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 20:40:18 -0800
SMS wrote:

wrote:
One thing in the trend of stores getting out of x-c skiing is that
the equipment has become so specialized and expensive over the past
two to three decades. The overhead is enormous to the degree one
stocks beyond the lower end of lines, and the dollar has been on
the low side for a good decade.

Yeah, the high end has essentially become more like downhill ski
equipment, but sold in volumes so low that it's enormously expensive.
But the low end should not be so difficult. Even when they close it
out at the end of the season for 40% off, they still have positive
margins.

Sorry to break it to you, but your spousal unit is part of the problem. If skis and boots last this long before they "get old", you can do the relatively easy math of how many pairs of skis can be sold to locals on a yearly basis. You may add to that a percentage or promillage of the tourists coming over to ski.
As much as passionate skiers promote the sport, on their 80's equipment, wearing painfully bright tights with chaotic patters on them, they are not business. They are taking up a part of the trail system that doesn not generate revenue for the retailers.
I'll be the first to admit to be an online buyer, and being a deal seeker. But, I buy a lot of skis/boots, a bit of clothing, and hopefully the shops I buy from sometimes are in a ski area.
I live in the country of bicycles. Most little stores are barely surviving though, and living mostly on repairs (lazy people letting others get dirty hands). Last years bikes can barely be sold this year, so keeping inventory is killing, yet also a necessity to attract buying customers. Sukks to be in retain unless you're on top, in a ski-rich area.

SMS wrote:
It's pretty bad that an area with a population of 3.5 million people
can't support a single actual mountaineering store.

Let me get this straight. You live somewhere where it doesn't
snow. 16 years ago someone in your household bought a pair of
nordic skis.

In the intervening time I am guessing that none of the money
that your household spends on skiing goes to shops where you
live, a place where it doesn't snow.

Then, 16 years later you discover that all the shops that
used to sell skis in a place where it doesn't snow are gone.
Do I have that right?

It's a mystery to me how that could happen.

Bob Schwartz

On Mar 7, 3:50*pm, Bob Schwartz
wrote:
SMS wrote:
It's pretty bad that an area with a population of 3.5 million people
can't support a single actual mountaineering store.

Let me get this straight. You live somewhere where it doesn't
snow. 16 years ago someone in your household bought a pair of
nordic skis.

In the intervening time I am guessing that none of the money
that your household spends on skiing goes to shops where you
live, a place where it doesn't snow.

Then, 16 years later you discover that all the shops that
used to sell skis in a place where it doesn't snow are gone.
Do I have that right?

It's a mystery to me how that could happen.

Bob Schwartz

Good observation Bob.

One of our local ski shops pretty much stopped stocking Nordic grear
other than a very limited selection a couple of years ago. The owner
told me of one experience that led to this decision. A knicker type
Nordic skier came in took an hour plus of his time picking out a $200
replacement for his 10 year old beater skis, then asked for a $100
trade-in on those beaters. In contrast snow boarders come in, look
around for 15 or 20 minutes and slap down $300 or $400 cash for new
boards.

Its also interesting that SMS's wife wanted lighter skis than here
E99s with NNN-BCs, but Marmot didn't have 3-pin bindings.

Unfortunately, too many Nordic skiers only want to buy skis at
season's end sales. I would rather have a pair that "fit" than a
cheap on-sale pair that are too stiff or too soft.

Edgar

Bob Schwartz wrote:
SMS wrote:
It's pretty bad that an area with a population of 3.5 million people
can't support a single actual mountaineering store.

Let me get this straight. You live somewhere where it doesn't
snow. 16 years ago someone in your household bought a pair of
nordic skis.

In the intervening time I am guessing that none of the money
that your household spends on skiing goes to shops where you
live, a place where it doesn't snow.

Not true, I've bought five more sets of skis for my kids as they've
grown, and four more pairs of boots.

Then, 16 years later you discover that all the shops that
used to sell skis in a place where it doesn't snow are gone.
Do I have that right?

It's a mystery to me how that could happen.

So how did all those shops survive for decades, with a much lower
population density?