Jacket Advice?

In message , Colin Irvine
writes

1. I'm going with 2 girls. Neither has any skiing equipment but I have an old
nevica all-in-one suit that fits one of them perfectly.

Some mountain toilets in Europe are hole-in-the-ground. I'd avoid
one-pieces if you can.

And that's from a bloke! The women should avoid one-pieces at all
costs, unless they're happy to undress in the queue like the Germans -
there may not be room to undress in the cubicles.
Salopettes and braces are even worse as you have to hold your jacket
while struggling with shoulder straps.
Trousers can and do hold themselves up.

Also, they'll care what they look like. Don't offer style advice, but
warn them to avoid pale-coloured trousers which show every mark (and
every cowpat if you're really unlucky) and can't be cleaned mid week.

--
Sue ];(

"NIALLBRUCE" wrote in message
...
I live in Aberdeen. There's a few outdoor shops nearby but they're all
very
expensive.
I've found a few websites in the US that seem to offer a good deal.
ArcTeryx
Sidewinder AR Jacket is over £400 in the UK but works out at £270 inc.
delivery
from the US (although I might be stung with taxes). I'm quite tempted -
all the
reviews suggest that it's an amazing jacket.
On the other hand, the local stores have lots of products around £100 -
£150
with Gore-Tex XCR and seemingly as many features as the more expensive
jackets.


Has outdoor clothing come down in price over the past couple of years? I
don't
think that I could have bought a decent jacket for under £150 a few years
ago!

I'm now trying to decide between ArcTeryx and Mountain Hardwear. Any
reviews
would be great!!

Niall

here's my tuppence worth: It does rain in the Alps, even in January, as I
have learnt to my uncomfortable cost. If you are in ski school then you
will be outside in it and probably at low altitude. Goretex type rainproofs
have come down in price, I guess because there are some good alternatives to
the real McCoy. I suggest getting low cost trousers with a waterproof
membrane such as Columbia or the range in Blacks/Millets and a waterproof
membrane shell garment, that does not have to be ski specific. I would
advise against a padded jacket, especially for beginners as they tend to
work much harder when they are fighting the slope! However, ladies do seem
to be more sensitive to cold so one or more fleeces would be advisable. If
the conditions are set fair and not to cold I like to use a windstopper or
windbloc fleece as my outer garment. As for your jacket I guess that they
will all work well. I would choose on style/price. I have a pair of Eider
goretex XCR pants, bought after a third consecutive rainy ski holiday. They
work very well, as it hasn't rained on me since I bought them ;-). They
have stopped my bum from getting wet on snowy chairs. Hope this ramble
helps.

Rod

"Sue" wrote in message
...
In message , Colin Irvine
writes

1. I'm going with 2 girls. Neither has any skiing equipment but I have an
old
nevica all-in-one suit that fits one of them perfectly.

Some mountain toilets in Europe are hole-in-the-ground. I'd avoid
one-pieces if you can.

And that's from a bloke! The women should avoid one-pieces at all costs,
unless they're happy to undress in the queue like the Germans - there may
not be room to undress in the cubicles.
Salopettes and braces are even worse as you have to hold your jacket while
struggling with shoulder straps.
Trousers can and do hold themselves up.

Also, they'll care what they look like. Don't offer style advice, but
warn them to avoid pale-coloured trousers which show every mark (and every
cowpat if you're really unlucky) and can't be cleaned mid week.

--
Sue ];(

Nevica one piece eh? http://www.fluorescentrompersuits.co.uk/

Always worth a browse at this time of year.

(NIALLBRUCE) wrote in message ...
I'm going on a skiing holiday this coming winter with a few friends and would
like to buy some equipment. However, I'm definately not an expert and would
greatly appreciate some advice!

1. I'm going with 2 girls. Neither has any skiing equipment but I have an old
nevica all-in-one suit that fits one of them perfectly.

There are 2 problems with a one piece, toilet access and fashion.
Whether the second is an issue depends on the girl involved, does she
mind not being fashionable. I have never come accross the famous pit
toilets in the Alps, they do exist but are rare, the main issue is
does she want to have to strip it off when she wants to go to the
toilet where the floor is likely to be wet. I still wear my one piece
as I find I can be warm with less underneath (and hence less
restricted in movement) and as I man I can usually go to the toilet
just by undoing the bottom of the two way zip.

A cheap outfit will certainly be fine for a beginner but within reason
the more you the more comfortable you will be. Waterproof prevents
snow melting and coming through the suit in a fall (pressure decreases
the freezing point of water so this can happen even if it is below
freezing but happens more on warmer days), breathable reduces damp
from perspiration but both together are expensive. If you avoid
cotton underneath a bit of mosture (either from outside or in) is not
a problem but wet cotten is very cold. Get a set or two of
polypropalene thermals (though these are not cheap), and wear fleece
as a mid layer.

Two places I can recommend for cheap skiwear in the UK are
skiwear4less and decathlon. The later have very little on there
online store so lok an see if you are near a branch. Skiwear4less
have an online store and tour the country so you can try things for
size before you buy.

"Colin Irvine" wrote in message
...
On 08 Oct 2004 22:27:09 GMT, (NIALLBRUCE) squeezed
out the following:

I'm going on a skiing holiday this coming winter with a few friends and would
like to buy some equipment. However, I'm definately not an expert and would
greatly appreciate some advice!

1. I'm going with 2 girls. Neither has any skiing equipment but I have an old
nevica all-in-one suit that fits one of them perfectly.

Some mountain toilets in Europe are hole-in-the-ground. I'd avoid
one-pieces if you can.

The advantage of one piece suits is that they dont let snow it at the waist,
perhaps a more important consideration for a beginner. I, wife and daughter all
wear one piece suits, and we have been to many resorts, though few in Italy.
Good mittens (or maybe gloves are important). I also wear long thermal
underpants.

Michael Chare

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:33:37 +0100, "Michael Chare"
squeezed out the following:

"Colin Irvine" wrote in message
.. .
On 08 Oct 2004 22:27:09 GMT, (NIALLBRUCE) squeezed
out the following:

I'm going on a skiing holiday this coming winter with a few friends and would
like to buy some equipment. However, I'm definately not an expert and would
greatly appreciate some advice!

1. I'm going with 2 girls. Neither has any skiing equipment but I have an old
nevica all-in-one suit that fits one of them perfectly.

Some mountain toilets in Europe are hole-in-the-ground. I'd avoid
one-pieces if you can.

The advantage of one piece suits is that they dont let snow it at the waist,
perhaps a more important consideration for a beginner.

True, a beginner is more likely to get snow in at the waist than have
to dive into a hole-in-the-ground toilet with the runs. The
consequences of these, however, are of different magnitudes
altogether.

--
Colin Irvine

NIALLBRUCE wrote:

I live in Aberdeen. There's a few outdoor shops nearby but they're all very
expensive.
I've found a few websites in the US that seem to offer a good deal. ArcTeryx
Sidewinder AR Jacket is over £400 in the UK but works out at £270 inc. delivery
from the US (although I might be stung with taxes). I'm quite tempted - all the
reviews suggest that it's an amazing jacket.
ArcTryx is good stuff. I bought one last year in Vancouver and it kept
me warm and dry in some of the most bizare and difficult conditions I've
ever seen (from -20 degrees and 1m of fresh snow, through to rain, +4
degrees and deep slush and then to hard ice and back to -20 in the space
of 4 days). Personally I wouldn't bother with one if it's just for a
week per year, but if you are planning on skiing/hiking/climbing/sitting
in the rain for no good reason etc they are fantastic jackets. If you
can justify the cost I'd recommend them.

If you are a novice you'd better be prepared for some snide remarks from
the lifties if you turn up with a £400 jacket though...

On the other hand, the local stores have lots of products around £100 - £150
with Gore-Tex XCR and seemingly as many features as the more expensive jackets.
Probably fine for a weeks skiing holiday.



Has outdoor clothing come down in price over the past couple of years? I don't
think that I could have bought a decent jacket for under £150 a few years ago!
Maybe, but the high end stuff has gone up I reckon.


I'm now trying to decide between ArcTeryx and Mountain Hardwear. Any reviews
would be great!!
Both great brands, so are Patagonia & Lowe. I'm not so keen on North
Face, but that's more a snobish attitude 'cos they've gone all
mass-market than any sensible opinion, I'm sure the gear is still good.

Trouble is once you've blown £400 on a jacket you'll want the pants to
match (£200+ at least), some decent thermals (£50) a nice fleece (£100),
a Da Kine HeliPro rucksac (£55)... I'll stop there, but believe me it
goes on. Getting hooked on crack would be a cheaper habit.

By the way, you didn't mention gloves. I reckon it's worth investing
here, cold hands are not good. I splashed a lot of money a few years ago
on a pair of Patagonia Nitros and they are fantastic. I really recommend
you don't skimp on the gloves, get waterproof outers with removable
fleece inners (so they can dry over night). Beginners need good gloves
more than experts because they spend more time picking their equipment,
and themselves, out of the snow:-)

HTH.
Steve

Was in Blacks in Manchester on Monday, and they had 50% most of the ski gear
in there. Fancied a Columbia jacket that was going for £85 but they didn't
have my size ( Might be worth trying a local Blacks?

"NIALLBRUCE" wrote in message
...
I'm going on a skiing holiday this coming winter with a few friends and
would
like to buy some equipment. However, I'm definately not an expert and
would
greatly appreciate some advice!

1. I'm going with 2 girls. Neither has any skiing equipment but I have an
old
nevica all-in-one suit that fits one of them perfectly.
a) Should the nevica jacket be used or are the £40-£50 jackets in the
shops
just as good / better? I understand that it's definately not in vogue but
surely the nevica's still a technically good jacket? It also saves money
on
salopettes! How does it compare with the relatively cheap options
currently
available? It's not too bright (just has some bright rectangles in random
locations!)

b) One of the girls, at least, has to buy completely new ski-wear. They're
both
beginners but I think that they will start skiing as a hobby once we've
returned from holiday. What are the 'cheap' jackets like? The label says
that
they're breathable but are they really suitable for skiing? Do they
constitute
a good buy or are the more expensive models a better investment?

c) Are there any shops / brands that we should look out for? I was very
impressed with the sale in nevisport last year. Unfortunately, we're going
before the sales this season so will have to suffer the full cost of
clothing.
Makro has some cheap jackets - again, I don't know what they're like. I
really
just want to know whether the cheaper alternatives are up to the job!
We're
going to Courmayeur (high-resort) in January so I think that it will be
quite
cold.

I'm also looking for a new jacket. Unlike the girls, I am likely to use
mine as
an all-purpose jacket. I'd like something that looks good in the pub but
is
also technically capable. I've done some research in a few shops, and on
the
net, but would really like to know what is and what's not good.
a) Is the new gore-tex stretch material worth the extra money? There's a
few
jackets in my local store with this technology but they're quite expensive
(£270?).
b) I liked the North Face jacket in the shop but the sales assistant said
that
'Cold Mountain' was a better brand. I didn't know whether or not to
believe
him. Is it possible to distinguish brands as being good or bad? It was a
North
Face summit series - apparently this is their best jacket??
c) Are the very expensive jackets (one was called ArcTeryx) worth the
expense?
They didn't necessarily have the best technology but online reviews
suggest
that they're still the favoured option. I'm really confused!!

I really don't know how to advise the girls (and am really stuck myself).
Any
advice on this area would be greatly appreciated! In particular, if
there's a
website or shop that has some good deals etc, I'd love to know!!

Thanks in advance
Niall


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Incidentally, was in the Liverpool branch of blacks today, and there was NO
sale stuff at all so it may be worth ringing if you have far to go. (Maybe
they've sent all the sale stuff to certain branches)????

"Charlatan" wrote in message
...
Was in Blacks in Manchester on Monday, and they had 50% most of the ski
gear in there. Fancied a Columbia jacket that was going for £85 but they
didn't have my size ( Might be worth trying a local Blacks?

"NIALLBRUCE" wrote in message
...
I'm going on a skiing holiday this coming winter with a few friends and
would
like to buy some equipment. However, I'm definately not an expert and
would
greatly appreciate some advice!

1. I'm going with 2 girls. Neither has any skiing equipment but I have an
old
nevica all-in-one suit that fits one of them perfectly.
a) Should the nevica jacket be used or are the £40-£50 jackets in the
shops
just as good / better? I understand that it's definately not in vogue but
surely the nevica's still a technically good jacket? It also saves money
on
salopettes! How does it compare with the relatively cheap options
currently
available? It's not too bright (just has some bright rectangles in random
locations!)

b) One of the girls, at least, has to buy completely new ski-wear.
They're both
beginners but I think that they will start skiing as a hobby once we've
returned from holiday. What are the 'cheap' jackets like? The label says
that
they're breathable but are they really suitable for skiing? Do they
constitute
a good buy or are the more expensive models a better investment?

c) Are there any shops / brands that we should look out for? I was very
impressed with the sale in nevisport last year. Unfortunately, we're
going
before the sales this season so will have to suffer the full cost of
clothing.
Makro has some cheap jackets - again, I don't know what they're like. I
really
just want to know whether the cheaper alternatives are up to the job!
We're
going to Courmayeur (high-resort) in January so I think that it will be
quite
cold.

I'm also looking for a new jacket. Unlike the girls, I am likely to use
mine as
an all-purpose jacket. I'd like something that looks good in the pub but
is
also technically capable. I've done some research in a few shops, and on
the
net, but would really like to know what is and what's not good.
a) Is the new gore-tex stretch material worth the extra money? There's a
few
jackets in my local store with this technology but they're quite
expensive
(£270?).
b) I liked the North Face jacket in the shop but the sales assistant said
that
'Cold Mountain' was a better brand. I didn't know whether or not to
believe
him. Is it possible to distinguish brands as being good or bad? It was a
North
Face summit series - apparently this is their best jacket??
c) Are the very expensive jackets (one was called ArcTeryx) worth the
expense?
They didn't necessarily have the best technology but online reviews
suggest
that they're still the favoured option. I'm really confused!!

I really don't know how to advise the girls (and am really stuck myself).
Any
advice on this area would be greatly appreciated! In particular, if
there's a
website or shop that has some good deals etc, I'd love to know!!

Thanks in advance
Niall


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Having gone through the price range of clothing available for the last
20 years or so I can wholeheartedly support previous comments - spend
as much as you can afford - then a bit more - a cheap 'showerproof'
jacket is absolutely no good in cold wet and windy winter conditions -
two or three falls or even a sit down will soak you through and lead
to discomfort for the whole day. If you can stretch to Gore-tex, do it
- it is well worth it and certainly wearable at home (I know - I have
two). Gore-tex is truly waterPROOF'- you will not get wet whatever
happens. I have used Gore-Tex for over 10 years and cannot recommend
it highly enough when compared to alternate ski wear- my tip -check
out 'TOG24' - British made and excellent value. They've a good
website.
One more thing - make sure you have a good hat - most important -
forget fashion in the mountains - keep warm - stay warm.

There's no such thing as cold weather - only the wrong clothes (Billly
Connolly)

Sorry if I've gone on a bit - I feel very passionate about this sort
of thing having almost frozen my *** off before in cheap clothing.....