Beginners need advice on skiing in Europe

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:56:37 +0100, "Paul Schofield"
wrote:


"Ace" wrote in message
.. .

Hi Ace, so where are you ski clubbing this year?

Easter weekend holiday holiday to Flaine has been arranged, still
waiting on repping slot to be finalised - we've left the resort choice
fairly open the last couple of years, given that both my wife (also a
rep) and myself get plenty of chance to ski our 'favourite' resorts
and enjoy being sent to new places. Probably somewhere over the
xmyth/new year period again, though.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

Simon Brown wrote:



Regarding the above - I'm 46 (!) and do no sport at all other than skiing
(and that's hardly sport). I walk everywhere - at least 4kms a day and when
the snow falls I can ski 6 hours a day without any problem at all. I have
the advantage of living up at 1,050 masl but am very sure that the walking
is the main factor. I'm also not overweight.


Good skiers put in far less effort than novices and take more rest while
actually skiing. I bet you stand up and relax while cruising down red
and black runs, whereas many novices appear to be constantly fighting
the slope, doing lots of turns with masses of physical effort.

I also have great doubts about the altitude argument. Diet (ie
consumption of complex carbohydrates) has probably a more important
role. At what altitude does our performance drop say 10-15%? Most of my
skiing effort is done anaerobically ie 30 secs to a minute intense
effort down a mogul field followed by relaxing and recovering. The
reduced oxygen in the air cannot alter that anaerobic depletion, but may
alter the recovery rate. Surely if altitude was a major component of
performance restriction we would all be like mountaineers stopping and
panting for very long periods after a few steps (or a few turns), but
then being able to continue. We stop at the end of the day with tired
and aching muscles (local muscle soreness) rather than struggle with
getting our breath.

Any one else got any views on altitude?

"john elgy" wrote in message
...
Simon Brown wrote:


Good skiers put in far less effort than novices and take more rest while
actually skiing. I bet you stand up and relax while cruising down red
and black runs, whereas many novices appear to be constantly fighting
the slope, doing lots of turns with masses of physical effort.


Very true, didn't want to frighten off any newcomers :-)

I tend to day-dream while skiing these days *but* I know my area quite well
so am not usually on the lookout for anything special other than any cute
snow-bunnies :-)

I also have great doubts about the altitude argument. Diet (ie
consumption of complex carbohydrates) has probably a more important
role. At what altitude does our performance drop say 10-15%? Most of my
skiing effort is done anaerobically ie 30 secs to a minute intense
effort down a mogul field followed by relaxing and recovering. The
reduced oxygen in the air cannot alter that anaerobic depletion, but may
alter the recovery rate. Surely if altitude was a major component of
performance restriction we would all be like mountaineers stopping and
panting for very long periods after a few steps (or a few turns), but
then being able to continue. We stop at the end of the day with tired
and aching muscles (local muscle soreness) rather than struggle with
getting our breath.

Any one else got any views on altitude?


I'm not saying it reduces performance, just makes you more tired in the
evening for the first few days.

It takes *aprox* 1 day for the blood to acclimatise for every 500m *but*
it's not true for all people and older people suffer more, from what
(little) I can remember the recommended max. altitude for 70 year-olds is
3,500m (or am I dreaming).

While do atheletes train at high altitude?
--
Simon Brown
www.hb9drv.ch

john elgy wrote:
Simon Brown wrote:

Regarding the above - I'm 46 (!) and do no sport at all other than skiing
(and that's hardly sport). I walk everywhere - at least 4kms a day and
when

I wouldn't define walking everywhere as no sport at all!

the snow falls I can ski 6 hours a day without any problem at all. I have
the advantage of living up at 1,050 masl but am very sure that the
walking
is the main factor. I'm also not overweight.

Good skiers put in far less effort than novices and take more rest while
actually skiing. I bet you stand up and relax while cruising down red
and black runs, whereas many novices appear to be constantly fighting
the slope, doing lots of turns with masses of physical effort.

Also the ratio of lift time to ski time goes up quite a lot as you get
better. It's not difficult for an intermediate to ski down a red quicker
than the lift goes up it, then on to the next lift for a rest: watch a
day-2 skier on a blue and you'll see the reverse.

As a further bonus, experienced skiers can even have a near-rest on
button tows, while novices will be using their full muscle power.

I also have great doubts about the altitude argument. Diet (ie
consumption of complex carbohydrates) has probably a more important
role. At what altitude does our performance drop say 10-15%? Most of my
skiing effort is done anaerobically ie 30 secs to a minute intense
effort down a mogul field followed by relaxing and recovering. The
reduced oxygen in the air cannot alter that anaerobic depletion, but may
alter the recovery rate. Surely if altitude was a major component of
performance restriction we would all be like mountaineers stopping and
panting for very long periods after a few steps (or a few turns), but
then being able to continue. We stop at the end of the day with tired
and aching muscles (local muscle soreness) rather than struggle with
getting our breath.

Any one else got any views on altitude?

If you factor in that your skiing is "mostly anaerobic", you've answered
your own question! I believe that altitude does make a difference to
heavily aerobic exercise, but intermediate piste-skiing mostly isn't
heavily aerobic. For *really* aching muscles, try snow-ploughing
everywhere. I still remember the agony!

As a teenager I lived in Geneva (around 400m) and never noticed any
altitude problems, skiing or hiking.

As an adult I live at 0m (give or take a few) and I've had three minor
altitude "experiences": one using the 3 flights of stairs in a chalet
(at the end of a day skiing - and it got noticeably easier after a
couple of days, even though I was skiing just as hard); one walking up a
skislope (lift closed) on a glacier at 3300m; and one walking uphill
(summer) at 2700m. In none of them was my ability to ski or walk
downhill affected.

My fitness is not generally anything special, in 2 cases I was
relatively fit (for my own standard) and in the other I was in complete
couch potato state.

Since there is an age factor involved as well, it's hardly an empirical
study, but I reckon that altitude does have an effect, I agree that
fitness and fuel intake are factors as well, although for me they don't
remove the problem as much as they improve the recovery rate: IMO the
strongest factor was living at 400m rather than sea-level (ok, maybe it
was combined with the age factor).

As John says, novices (and I imagine expert off-piste and mogul skiers)
use much more energy, so the effects are likely to be more noticeable
for them.

Still, they can be offset to an extent by improving your fitness level
and skiing technique before you leave home. And it's a great excuse to
eat all you want while you're out there!

For maximum benefit, also make a note to teach your kids while they are
still young!

-Sarah

Simon Brown wrote:

"john elgy" wrote in message
...

Any one else got any views on altitude?


I'm not saying it reduces performance, just makes you more tired in the
evening for the first few days.

It takes *aprox* 1 day for the blood to acclimatise for every 500m ...

I know the first time we went to Val Thorens (2300M iirc) to stay I was
completely out of breath after taking 3 cases up a couple of flights of
stairs. When we visit VT on skis from Courchevel 1850 I never notice the
altitude effect.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:49:03 +0100, "Paul Schofield"
wrote:


"Alex Heney" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:57:48 +0100, "Paul Schofield"
wrote:


"Ralph" wrote in message
om...
Hi, my girlfriend and I want to go skiing for the first time ever. We
plan to go over Christmas somewhere in Europe (we live in London at
the moment). I am a bit overwhelmed by the choices available on the
web. Can anyone help with advice on a good European Resort to go to
for beginners that has a very good prospect of snow at Winter; has
good atmosphere i.e. the fireplace and all that, for a budget price.
Ideally we would love to book a package which includes ski hire,
instruction etc - is there anywhere that does that. THANKS!!

Slightly OT, but I'd advise you try and ski in the UK first - MK or HH
should be within range.

I doubt it. It was fairly obvious from the last question, and from one
or two other phrases, that the OP is not British, and almost certainly
not in the UK.
--

err... OP said (we live in London at the moment)


Duh!

Missed that.

So how on earth did they not know that all the package operators do
the type of thing he was looking for?
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Kleptomania: take something for it

To reply by email, my address is aDOTjDOTheneyATbtinternetDOTcom

"Iain Miller" wrote in message ...
"Ralph" wrote in message
m...
Hi, my girlfriend and I want to go skiing for the first time ever. We
plan to go over Christmas somewhere in Europe (we live in London at
the moment). I am a bit overwhelmed by the choices available on the
web. Can anyone help with advice on a good European Resort to go to
for beginners that has a very good prospect of snow at Winter; has
good atmosphere i.e. the fireplace and all that, for a budget price.
Ideally we would love to book a package which includes ski hire,
instruction etc - is there anywhere that does that. THANKS!!


Andorra has been mentioned and is good, another options is Livigno in
Italy.

A package might not be a good idea specially if you take the advice
(which I agree with) to do some skiing in the UK before you go. You
may find you progress very slowly and are limited to a couple of
beginner lifts for the first few days when you want to be with the
next group up on the longer runs. Tour operators make things very
easy for you taking you to a ski rental shop and going to the ticket
booth with your photo and money to save you queueing.

Ski hire, lift pass & instruction prices will be much of a muchness wherever
you go. Others have advised on possible resorts but pretty much anywhere
will give you what you want. The higher you go the better (i.e. the more
chance of decent snow).


Rubbish.

Taken from last years crystal brochure

eg Soldeu: Ski hire £21, boot hire £14, lift pass £76, 15hrs tuition
£56
Livigno: Ski hire £29, boot hire £19, lift pass £112,? hrs tuition
£55
Les Arcs:Ski hire £52, boot hire £22, local pass£129,15hrs tuition
£84

Les Arcs is great for a mixed group of skiers as it has good beginner
facilities but also much to keep advanced skiers happy. For you
however you will pay through the nose for things you don't need

Andorra is great for cheap skiing but the resorts are limited and lack
mountain charm.

Livigno has some mountain charm (the resorts that have the best
mountain charm are real villages where the skiing is quite awkward to
get to)

If you are really after mountain charm Lech is good but expensive and
Alpbach has the charm but you may find a lack of snow.

Some other advice though....


b) Ski clothing is expensive to buy new & pretty much worthless second hand.
You'd do well to avoid buying it for the first trip - you may hate it &
never go again. Plenty of places will rent clothing (Jackets/Trousers etc)
but you will need to either buy or borrow hats, gloves, glasses, goggles,
socks etc. Don't skimp on gloves - skiing with cold, wet hands is no fun.
There used to be a small ski shop on the Uxbridge road called Bartlets who
used to rent stuff out. I tend to find that places like Snow & Rock are
expensive.

Take advantage of the high depreciation, you will be able to get 2nd
hand clothing on eBay or the local ads paper for about the same amount
as (or even less than) the hire cost. If you enjoy skiing tey will
probably last another season or two, if not you can sell tham on for
little loss.

e) Cram in as many lessons as you can. The more you learn the faster you
will be out of ski-school & the fewer bad habits you will acquire from
trying to ski on your own too soon.

You also want it to be fun, another option would be for the two of you
to have 8-10 hrs of semi private lessons and spend the rest of the
time practising what you have learnt. You will probably learn faster
this way but you need to decide if you will enjoy yourself more on
your own or with a gang of new friends/total strangers

Carl

Try a lot of cycling(esp interval training in a gym) to get fit. As
previous
people have said-VERY important.

Not for a first-week beginner, you don't stay upright long enough to put
that much effort in.

Continually picking yourself up off the snow all day with strange Robocop
boots and planks attached to your feet is hard work indeed.

Do some exercise, but give special attention to balance. Tai Chi is good,
or anything where you do movements standing
on one foot. Rollerblading is perfect.

This is another very good tip - balance is all....

I.

On 11 Aug 2004 15:21:26 -0700, (Carl_M)
wrote:

Andorra is great for cheap skiing but the resorts are limited and lack
mountain charm.

Just in case you didn't know - there's now a full link-up on a single
lift between Soldeu and Pas de la Casa, so the 'limited' bit is
certainly no longer correct (210km of piste, IIRC, and a fair
springling of decent off-piste if you look for it).

Mountain charm? Well, you're probably not wrong, but the Village of
Soldeu is certainly much nicer than many purpose-built French resorts.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:26:38 +0200, Ace wrote:

On 11 Aug 2004 15:21:26 -0700, (Carl_M)
wrote:

Andorra is great for cheap skiing but the resorts are limited and lack
mountain charm.

Just in case you didn't know - there's now a full link-up on a single
lift between Soldeu and Pas de la Casa, so the 'limited' bit is
^ pass
certainly no longer correct (210km of piste, IIRC, and a fair
springling of decent off-piste if you look for it).

Mountain charm? Well, you're probably not wrong, but the Village of
Soldeu is certainly much nicer than many purpose-built French resorts.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.