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Powder Mag video on McCoy and Mammoth



 
 
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  #31  
Old September 12th 13, 01:34 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Dave Stallard[_4_]
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Posts: 318
Default Powder Mag video on McCoy and Mammoth

On Sunday, September 8, 2013 12:25:20 AM UTC-4, Richard Henry wrote:

The last part is now up. At the end, it alternates between scenes of planes at the airport and skiers enjoying the first rope tows back in the 50's..


The video was quite poignant. One thing I wasn't clear on, though, was whether the lawsuit's payout to the developer was to make him whole on his investment, or whether it was just a punitive measure in response to the breach of contract. If the latter, he is a complete asshole. You shouldn't bankrupt a community just to get back at them.

One thing that's clear though is that nobody involved really did due diligence. All parties should have insisted on having in common an official written statement from the FAA as to the permissibility of the development, as part of the materials supporting the contract. Seems pretty basic to me.

Dave
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  #32  
Old September 12th 13, 03:35 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Richard Henry
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Posts: 3,756
Default Powder Mag video on McCoy and Mammoth

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:34:18 PM UTC-7, Dave Stallard wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2013 12:25:20 AM UTC-4, Richard Henry wrote:



The last part is now up. At the end, it alternates between scenes of planes at the airport and skiers enjoying the first rope tows back in the 50's.




The video was quite poignant. One thing I wasn't clear on, though, was whether the lawsuit's payout to the developer was to make him whole on his investment, or whether it was just a punitive measure in response to the breach of contract. If the latter, he is a complete asshole. You shouldn't bankrupt a community just to get back at them.



One thing that's clear though is that nobody involved really did due diligence. All parties should have insisted on having in common an official written statement from the FAA as to the permissibility of the development, as part of the materials supporting the contract. Seems pretty basic to me.



Dave


He never did much of the promised improvements because the FAA wouldn't sign off on them. To my mind, his "damages" amounted to lost opportunity for an investment profit. I think that was the basis of ML's appeal, which didn't work.

Another factor that is only hinted at in the video is that the trial occurred in Mono County Court, a few miles up 395 in Bridgeport. I sensed there might be some jealousy of the relative wealth of ML by the Mono County locals on the jury.

They could have spent the money on shuttle bush service from an improved Bishop airport. It would have been cheaper., and it would have been working in a couple of years.
  #33  
Old September 13th 13, 12:25 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Dave Stallard[_4_]
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Posts: 318
Default Powder Mag video on McCoy and Mammoth

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:35:09 PM UTC-4, Richard Henry wrote:

They could have spent the money on shuttle bush service from an improved Bishop airport. It would have been cheaper., and it would have been working in a couple of years.


I've flown into Mammoth Lakes airport. It was quite hairy. Top 2 fears about flying into Mammoth Lakes:

2) Your flight will be canceled due to weather.
1) Your flight WON'T be canceled due to weather.

It felt as though a giant cat was trying to bat the plane out of the sky with his huge paw. Bap! Right on top of the plane. You could feel and hear it. Wow.

Bishop is 44 miles away according to Google. That's kind of long if you've already had to fly into a small airport, which would be the third flight leg of the trip, unless you got a direct into LAX or SFO.

I loved the shuttle bus ride from Mammoth Lakes airport. Very homey and informal, chatty driver. A couple on board had traveled from the Caribbean, where they worked as yacht crew. The girl saw the giant snow walls outside her hotel, and exclaimed in rapturous wonderment "It's like a DREAM!".

Dave
  #34  
Old September 13th 13, 03:13 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
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Default Powder Mag video on McCoy and Mammoth

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 7:25:30 PM UTC-5, Dave Stallard wrote:
On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:35:09 PM UTC-4, Richard Henry wrote:

They could have spent the money on shuttle bush service from an improved Bishop airport. It would have been cheaper., and it would have been working in a couple of years.


Bishop is 44 miles away according to Google. That's kind of long if you've already had to fly into a
small airport, which would be the third flight leg of the trip, unless you got a direct into LAX or SFO.

I loved the shuttle bus ride from Mammoth Lakes airport. Very homey and informal, chatty driver. A
couple on board had traveled from the Caribbean, where they worked as yacht crew. The girl saw the
giant snow walls outside her hotel, and exclaimed in rapturous wonderment "It's like a DREAM!".


Just a 44 mile shuttle trip? The yacht girl had the right outlook.

On one Tahoe trip, we flew into Sacramento and got on a chartered bus to Southlake. Do the math. But it was direct-connect flight from Austin TX to SACTO on a real plane, and not some white-knuckle propellor-driven puddle-jumper deal. I don't mind those, but most of my traveling companions do.

From Southlake we almost invariably got on a bus for a ride that lasted nearly an hour to exotic resorts like Squat, Jerkwood, and the inimitable Sierra Ski Ranch. Heck, even the shuttle to the Heave took a half an hour.

Another trip to Tahoe, we flew into Reno and had a casino-comped limo drive us to Harveys. It was an hour drive, but we flew in on a real plane and the limo driver was a retired member of one of the Five Families. Rockin'.

One trip to Santa Fe, I had to wait an hour in a hotel lobby for the shuttle to the ski area, a 12-mile ride that took 45 minutes. Since it was an election day there, the bar was closed (New Mexico state law). Horvath probably woulda died.

It was faster the time I took my OWN bus to Santa Fe, the unforgettable and legendary 1971 Buick LeSabre with the 455 and -- swear to God, I could never make this up -- the Texas license plate BUS-281. There's probably a TR on here somewhere. Search on "locked the keys in the car" or "passed a BMW and slung snow all over their windshield."

The bottom line is -- it's not the destination, it's the ride. So adding a 45-minute or hour shuttle is nothing for the dedicated ski traveler. And you can add a shuttle line in 15 minutes, not two years -- well, except in California, where you need 147 permits just to put in a bench at the shuttle stop. Visitors to Southlake are aware of the difference between the NV side and the CA side.

And if a 45 minute ride is unseemly? It takes that long to get to the airport here in Austin from ANYWHERE in town except the Formula 1 racetrack. And that's only because they have a helicopter shuttle from the racetrack to the airport.
  #35  
Old September 13th 13, 05:35 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Richard Henry
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Posts: 3,756
Default Powder Mag video on McCoy and Mammoth

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:25:30 PM UTC-7, Dave Stallard wrote:
On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:35:09 PM UTC-4, Richard Henry wrote:



They could have spent the money on shuttle bush service from an improved Bishop airport. It would have been cheaper., and it would have been working in a couple of years.




I've flown into Mammoth Lakes airport. It was quite hairy. Top 2 fears about flying into Mammoth Lakes:



2) Your flight will be canceled due to weather.

1) Your flight WON'T be canceled due to weather.



It felt as though a giant cat was trying to bat the plane out of the sky with his huge paw. Bap! Right on top of the plane. You could feel and hear it. Wow.



Bishop is 44 miles away according to Google. That's kind of long if you've already had to fly into a small airport, which would be the third flight leg of the trip, unless you got a direct into LAX or SFO.



I loved the shuttle bus ride from Mammoth Lakes airport. Very homey and informal, chatty driver. A couple on board had traveled from the Caribbean, where they worked as yacht crew. The girl saw the giant snow walls outside her hotel, and exclaimed in rapturous wonderment "It's like a DREAM!".



Dave


Bishop Airport - http://goo.gl/maps/q4Us5

Mammoth Lakes Airport (same scale) - http://goo.gl/maps/gcgp3

One infamous air crash event is shared by the two airports. On March 13, 1974, a 32-man film crew who had been working in the Mammoth Lakes area was supposed to have taken a charter flight back to Burbank from Mammoth airport. However, weather socked in the Mammoth Airport, so they bused down to Bishop to meet their charter. The plane took off after dark on a moonless night and failed to clear a ridge about 5 miles southwest, killing all 32 passengers and 4 crew. Although the crash site was visible from the airport, there was no easy way to reach it, so it burned all night.

http://libraryonline.erau.edu/online...s/AAR75-01.pdf
  #36  
Old September 13th 13, 06:15 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
pigo[_2_]
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Posts: 2,376
Default Powder Mag video on McCoy and Mammoth

On Friday, September 13, 2013 9:13:06 AM UTC-6, wrote:

And if a 45 minute ride is unseemly? It takes that long to get to the airport here in Austin from ANYWHERE in town except the Formula 1 racetrack. And that's only because they have a helicopter shuttle from the racetrack to the airport.


Reno, Salt Lake, Tahoe, Denver....All have their reasons for using that particular gateway. Some to do with the skiing, some with the trip planner, some with transportation times.

I drove skier shuttles out of Park City and Vail. Out of pc I could do 8-10 trips on a busy day. A half hour drive. But depending on the number of different parties and their check in particulars a round trip for me was 2 hours if everything went well. Out of Vail it was an 8 hour min. shift to pick up a group or groups, drive to Stapleton and then DIA, wait for an incoming group or groups and get them to their lodgings.

I lived in the North Shore of Tahoe for awhile too. Didn't drive shuttles at the time but Sac. was much further away than Reno. Reno is a reasonable drive to Tahoe for commuting purposes though.

  #37  
Old September 13th 13, 09:10 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,805
Default Powder Mag video on McCoy and Mammoth

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:13:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote
this crap:

I loved the shuttle bus ride from Mammoth Lakes airport.

Very homey and informal, chatty driver. A
couple on board had traveled from the Caribbean,

where they worked as yacht crew. The girl saw the
giant snow walls outside her hotel, and exclaimed in rapturous

wonderment "It's like a DREAM!".

Just a 44 mile shuttle trip? The yacht girl had the right outlook.

On one Tahoe trip, we flew into Sacramento and got on a chartered
bus to Southlake. Do the math. But it was direct-connect flight
from Austin TX to SACTO on a real plane, and not some white-knuckle
propellor-driven puddle-jumper deal. I don't mind those, but most
of my traveling companions do.

From Southlake we almost invariably got on a bus for a ride that lasted
nearly an hour to exotic resorts like Squat, Jerkwood, and the inimitable
Sierra Ski Ranch. Heck, even the shuttle to the Heave took a half an hour.

Another trip to Tahoe, we flew into Reno and had a casino-comped limo drive


I landed a 737 at Mammoth and didn't have a problem. And I must
mention that I'm not a pilot and I will never be one.

Oh. I was drinking shots of rum with a beer chaser at the time.


This signature is now the ultimate
power in the universe
  #38  
Old September 14th 13, 12:28 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Dave Stallard[_4_]
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Posts: 318
Default Powder Mag video on McCoy and Mammoth

On Friday, September 13, 2013 11:13:06 AM UTC-4, wrote:

The bottom line is -- it's not the destination, it's the ride. So adding a 45-minute or hour shuttle is nothing for the dedicated ski traveler. And you can add a shuttle line in 15 minutes, not two years -- well, except in California, where you need 147 permits just to put in a bench at the shuttle stop. Visitors to Southlake are aware of the difference between the NV side and the CA side.


Sure. The ride from Vancouver airport to Whistler is 2-2.5 hours on a long 2-leg flight if you're coming from the East coast, and I put up with that. But that's on regular airplanes flying to major airports. All I'm saying is that if you're flying a puddle-jumper into a small airport, and the air portion of your trip is THREE legs (which could happen if you're flying into a small airport; 2 legs to LAX or SFO plus 1 to Bishop), an additional road leg might be sufficiently discouraging to make many vacationers choose another airport.

It depends on how much you like the place you're going to. If you like it sufficiently more than you do the more accessible places, you'll put up with the inconvenience. If not, then you won't. That was the calculation that the Mammoth people were presumably making.

BTW, I just looked at Expedia, and I can't even make it pull up the Bishop, CA airport - it offers Fresno instead. Perhaps there's not commercial service here yet?

Dave
  #39  
Old September 14th 13, 02:15 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Richard Henry
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Posts: 3,756
Default Powder Mag video on McCoy and Mammoth

On Friday, September 13, 2013 5:28:52 PM UTC-7, Dave Stallard wrote:
On Friday, September 13, 2013 11:13:06 AM UTC-4, wrote:



The bottom line is -- it's not the destination, it's the ride. So adding a 45-minute or hour shuttle is nothing for the dedicated ski traveler. And you can add a shuttle line in 15 minutes, not two years -- well, except in California, where you need 147 permits just to put in a bench at the shuttle stop. Visitors to Southlake are aware of the difference between the NV side and the CA side.




Sure. The ride from Vancouver airport to Whistler is 2-2.5 hours on a long 2-leg flight if you're coming from the East coast, and I put up with that. But that's on regular airplanes flying to major airports. All I'm saying is that if you're flying a puddle-jumper into a small airport, and the air portion of your trip is THREE legs (which could happen if you're flying into a small airport; 2 legs to LAX or SFO plus 1 to Bishop), an additional road leg might be sufficiently discouraging to make many vacationers choose another airport.



It depends on how much you like the place you're going to. If you like it sufficiently more than you do the more accessible places, you'll put up with the inconvenience. If not, then you won't. That was the calculation that the Mammoth people were presumably making.



BTW, I just looked at Expedia, and I can't even make it pull up the Bishop, CA airport - it offers Fresno instead. Perhaps there's not commercial service here yet?



Dave


Commercial service to all the Owens Valley airports has come and gone over the years. Right now the only scheduled service is to Mammoth Lakes, and they are getting a substantial subsidy from the local tourist industry.
  #40  
Old September 14th 13, 02:57 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
pigo[_2_]
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Posts: 2,376
Default Powder Mag video on McCoy and Mammoth

On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:15:56 PM UTC-6, Richard Henry wrote:

Commercial service to all the Owens Valley airports has come and gone over the years. Right now the only scheduled service is to Mammoth Lakes, and they are getting a substantial subsidy from the local tourist industry.


It's a little confusing. It's not the kind of place that poseurs from around the country are going to be drawn. It doesn't have the discos, fine dining, other distractions. There aren't really that many people that focused on skiing where ski 'till you can't stand, drink some beer, repeat are the priority. Especially with the crowd that doesn't even _ski_. What? Would you have to board for something like 24 hours straight to use the energy and skill it takes to ski for 7hours? Probably too generous.

Bottom line, it's a completely different experience. But you can go to those other places and ignore the distractions if you choose. Not possible when that is what you are after and it doesn't exist.



 




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