Good AT ski

bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Mar.30.04@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote:
_ Yes, I know a lot about waxing as I used to race XC. It's not
going from a "dusting" to wet granular, it's going from 2 feet of
fresh powder to wet paste to corn.

So, just to confirm.... does this imply that you've tried kick wax
over (universal) klister in the Sierra and found it not to work
for your typical sun/shade conditions? I'm not arguing for
wax vs waxless, at this point. Just trying to gather feedback.

_ There is no "untracked" snow at a ski area. Waxless skis are at
their worst on prepared tracks and hard snow. In untracked snow
there is enough friction in moving the snow out of the way that
the difference between waxless and waxable is not that
noticable.

Wasn't my experience. I made the mistake of skiing my
waxless skis on abrasive groomed manmade at a ski area
out of necessity. They were the only skis I had. After a season
of that use (abuse?) they were noticably slower in all conditions,
even in new soft snow.

This said, I think waxless is almost always fastest from point
A to point B, since you don't have to futz with wax.
Efficiency != fun though.

_ There is a point at which it's pretty hard to have any fun if
you don't have a certain level of efficiency. Tools to terrain,
as the forest ski discussion shows, every piece of gear works
"somewhere".

Yup.


-- Dave
==============================================
"It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts
without the proper equipment."
Aristotle, Politics, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
==============================================

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In article ,
pinnah wrote:
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Mar.30.04@telemark .slac.stanford.edu
wrote:
_ Yes, I know a lot about waxing as I used to race XC. It's not
going from a "dusting" to wet granular, it's going from 2 feet of
fresh powder to wet paste to corn.

So, just to confirm.... does this imply that you've tried kick wax
over (universal) klister in the Sierra and found it not to work
for your typical sun/shade conditions? I'm not arguing for
wax vs waxless, at this point. Just trying to gather feedback.

_ Yes, I tried every waxing trick I knew about or ever heard of,
even the magical silver klister[1] doesn't really work well enough
over a long day. I could probably use waxable skis more than I
do, but I'm pretty happy with the performance of my waxless
skis. The downsides to getting the wax wrong are too much for
the advantages. When I get the time to head up there I want
to spend it skiing, not waxing. If I had more time, I'd
experiment with waxing more, there's nothing quite like the
feeling of kick'n'glide when you get it right.

_ In my experience kick wax over klister is a pretty specialized
trick, great for blowing powder into icy tracks and similar
tricky conditions. It also needs to be cold enough out that
the thin klister layer will setup properly in a short time.
Sometimes very hard to do on a sunny warm day when you're in
a hurry to get going...

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]- A thin layer of silver klister aged a week or two on your
ski base has the widest usable range of any wax I've ever used.

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bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Apr.05.04@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote:
_ Yes, I tried every waxing trick I knew about or ever heard of,
even the magical silver klister[1] doesn't really work well enough
over a long day.

Great feedback. Many thanks!

Say, since you've spent time waxing in New England, I would appreciate
any feedback, comments or sugggestions on the following web page:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/wax.html

Note, it targeted towards touring, not racing and very much targeted
for New England (or similar climates).

_ In my experience kick wax over klister is a pretty specialized
trick, great for blowing powder into icy tracks and similar
tricky conditions. It also needs to be cold enough out that
the thin klister layer will setup properly in a short time.

Good point on the set-up time.

[1]- A thin layer of silver klister aged a week or two on your
ski base has the widest usable range of any wax I've ever used.

This makes me feel good about being lazy and keeping one pair of
klister skis going throughout the year. I just keep adding klister to
an old pair skis and don't bother cleaning them till the season's over
sometimes.


-- Dave
==============================================
"It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts
without the proper equipment."
Aristotle, Politics, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
==============================================

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In article ,
pinnah wrote:
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Apr.05.04@telemark .slac.stanford.edu
wrote:
_ Yes, I tried every waxing trick I knew about or ever heard of,
even the magical silver klister[1] doesn't really work well enough
over a long day.

Great feedback. Many thanks!

Say, since you've spent time waxing in New England, I would appreciate
any feedback, comments or sugggestions on the following web page:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/wax.html

_ Two comments.

1. GET SOME SILVER KLISTER!

It's hard to find, difficult to use, but nothing lasts longer
in abrasive corn snow. The useful temperature range is much
wider than listed on the package.

2. Thinner is better with klister.

The thinner you put klister on the better it will work and
the longer it lasts. If you let klister sit in the cold a
bit, you can even cork it into the base. This requires that
you have a "klister" cork made of real cork and you will
make a huge mess the first couple times you try it.

_ The rest of the page seems pretty useful to me. I've always
preferred the special's and extra's over the standard colors.


Note, it targeted towards touring, not racing and very much targeted
for New England (or similar climates).

_ In my experience kick wax over klister is a pretty specialized
trick, great for blowing powder into icy tracks and similar
tricky conditions. It also needs to be cold enough out that
the thin klister layer will setup properly in a short time.

Good point on the set-up time.

[1]- A thin layer of silver klister aged a week or two on your
ski base has the widest usable range of any wax I've ever used.

This makes me feel good about being lazy and keeping one pair of
klister skis going throughout the year. I just keep adding klister to
an old pair skis and don't bother cleaning them till the season's over
sometimes.


_ If you can keep it clean, I've found that aged klister
generally works better. The biggest mistake people make
with klister is putting it on too thick. Get the klister
nice and warm before you put it on, make it as thin as
possible and let it cool before you use the skis.

_ Aged klister works well because it is effectively thinned
and corked in by the abrasiveness of the snow.

_ Booker C. Bense

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