Experience of Eurostar?

Early arrival no prob to us. Have 2 kids and we're looking forward to using
the tobbogans we're taking along in the morning,after a leisurely breakfast,
followed by pre-booked equipment hire, apartment check in and an afternoon
ski on the local slopes. Then an early night. That's the theory, anyway! I
sure look forward to just having a 15 min taxi ride to Waterloo instead of
a 1hr/£50 each way pre dawn cab ride followed by 90 min stand around at
Gatwick. City Airport was the other possibility but cheaper flights just
gone.
Will report after the event!
Cheers, Mike

"Stan Mullery" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:38:21 +0100, "MPW"
wrote:

Hi, anyone here travelled by Eurostar? Do they do reductions to the Alps
(Moutiers) later in the season, or should I grab what's on offer before
it's
too late? Skiing Les Meneurs first week of Easter. Cheers, Mike




I've used the Saturday "day" service three times now and will be doing
so again the first week of the Easter hols.

Comfortable trip avoiding the hassles of airports and coach transfers.
I usually have TVT pick me up at Moutiers and it's a quick ride up the
hill to Courchevel.

Best part is the section up from Albertville when you see the road
traffic at a standstill.

Remember, it's supposed to be a holiday your going on so get a ticket
now and avoid the airport hassles.

Stan

On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:52:53 +0100, "Paul Schofield"
paul_AT_sonifex_DOT_co_DOT_uk wrote:

Hi, anyone here travelled by Eurostar? Do they do reductions to the
Alps

Yes but only if the train is empty as travel date approaches. The white train
is also discounted in these circumstances. However it can be dangerous to wait
because these trains do sell out at peak times.

(Moutiers) later in the season, or should I grab what's on offer
before
it's
too late? Skiing Les Meneurs first week of Easter. Cheers, Mike



..snip loads of advice

I looked at overnight Eurostar and was a bit concerned about the arrival
time in Moutier. IIRC it was about 5.30 in the morning (4.30 am GMT). This
just seems like a nightmare to me - you probably won't have any

I am a regular user of overnight snow trains. Originally Eurostar to Paris
Gare du Nord then RER D to Gare de Lyon or Metro to Gare d'Austerlitz. Later I
used the Eurostar overnight and the White Train from Gare du Nord. The white
train is more expensive than the train via Gare d'Austerlitz/du Lyon. Eurostar
direct is the most expensive.

Time does matter if you intend to be on the slopes as the lifts open. I think
the first train into Bourg St Maurice(BSM), the Eurostar at 6.27am. The first
Gare du Lyon train comes in next at 7am. At peak periods the late (midnight)
train from Gare du Lyon arrives around 7.30am. Then the White train turns up
at 8.38am. These times require everything to work like clockwork. One
unexpectedly slow train can throw a spanner in the works. Do not forget these
are not the only trains arriving. On Saturday morning they will be queued up
from Albertville waiting for their turn. Do not forget that it snows in the
alps then all trains move carefully. Trains arrive at Moutiers approximately
45 minutes earlier.

I would like to arrive before 8am to catch a bus. Particularly for the longer
transfers to Tignes or Val Thorens. So I like a train to arrive before 8am. The
Eurostar arrives too early for anywhere in good conditions. To make matters
worse if you are going to a less popular ski train resort eg. Valmorel you may
not be able to get a bus until 9am. Also the White train's 8.38am is too late
for a ideal transfer to Espace Killy. It is even a little late for Les Arcs.
Good for the short transfers from Moutiers though. Weather can effect the
desirability of an early train. One year I caught the bus from BSM around
7.30am. It started to snow. There were some vehicles on the road without snow
chains, inexperienced drivers and generally poor road conditions for everyone.
Progress was slow so I did not arrive in Tignes until around 10.15. A little
late so I am cross. The weather cleared in the afternoon. On Sunday I heard a
local talking about the road conditions. Apparently my bus had arrived 10.15am
then no other bus arrived until 4pm. (Last march no traffic moved at all from
BSM, people stayed in their trains until Monday, very bad for people in cars)

When you go to Les Arcs by train walk the wrong way along the platform to the
bridge. Turn left on the bridge and walk to the end. You will previously have
bought your ski pass online. It is in your jacket pocket so you can walk
straight on to Les Arcs' bottom ski lift, Arc en Ciel (Rainbow) funicular. This
will take you to Arc 1600. If you are not staying in Arc1600 you then catch a
free navette (bus) to Arcs 1800, 1950, 2000. If you are staying at another
resort you walk from the train through the train station to the bus station and
buy a bus ticket to your destination.

You will be able to leave your bags get changed and go skiing. You will not
normally be able to take up your room until late afternoon. Some accommodation
will allow you to leave their bags at the reception or baggage room. Other
times you will need to use the resort baggage room where you may need to pay a
small fee if it is supervised. Until last year I thought this was always
possible, however I went to a cheap residence (that I had been before) but this
time I was told I could not leave my bag, not that unusual but such places
usually have a communal baggerie. Arc 2000 does not, so needless to say I will
never stay with France Location again, anywhere. So I had to take the Navette
back around to Arc 1800 where I knew there were two places to leave my bags.
The standard of baggage rooms vary significantly. The best have toilets,
changing rooms and showers. The worst are unsupervised rooms with shelves. If
it is a pay baggerie roll up your ski bag and put it with your boot bag into
your main bag. You pay per bag.

Mid week you go to the bus station and buy your tickets back to the station
(unless you in Les Arc). On Saturday morning you leave your room and put your
bags back into the baggage room. Have a nice day skiing. Return to the baggage
room get changed catch the booked bus and arrive at the station allowing plenty
of time. For the Eurostar there is plenty of time to get to the station. For
earlier trains you may need to quit before the end of skiing to have a
leisurely transfer. It is sometimes good to finish early. In some resorts
there are restaurants that serve food all day on Saturday. You may not get a
chance of a proper meal again until you are back in the UK.

You have had eight days skiing instead of six. Saturday is the quietest day so
you do not need to find your skiing legs on a busy piste. Then on the second
Saturday when you are the best skier in the world again you can charge around
with reckless abandon on empty reds. That is the good side. The bad side. On
a normal week day if the weather is poor you will just curse your luck and head
back to your hotel a little early. But on the Saturday you have nowhere to go.
If it is horrible you are stuck out in it all day there is no cosy room to
retreat to. Surprisingly exceptionally good weather can be bad too. If you
have had glorious weather all week you have done all the skiing you want to do
for the moment so the second Saturday needs to be endured. This will not change
your craving to go again on Monday morning. However overall eight days is much
better than six.

The travel environment can be less than ideal. On the White train there is a
bar/disco so on the outward journey there are excited youths running up and
down the corridor all night. If you are unlucky you will have loud excited
party types in your shared cabin of six couchettes. Usually cohabities are
well behaved but regrettably no restraint is exercised in the cabin next door.
The journey home is usually more subdued. The French snow trains are much
quieter and nicer in my experience. I prefer the White train to Eurostar but
one of my brothers disagrees. Same reservations apply to the Blue train (Ferry
to Calais, not running this year?).

First class Eurostar is an acceptable alternative. Outward bound we are given
champagne, wine, food tea coffee. We are also given a little bag of goodies.
We are awakened annoyingly early so people bound for Moutiers can have
breakfast. Similarly on the homeward journey we are not given food until after
Moutiers which is a little late for supper. Sleeping is not easy sitting up.
Sometimes the 1st class carriage is quite empty so it is possible to claim an
extra seat and sleep across two. It is still isn't comfortable but it is
better. On the return journey the train parks up in the Gare du Nord so that
is does not arrive before Waterloo opens. This is annoying the lights are very
bright and stations should serve trains not the other way around. Arriving
back in london an hour earlier would be a good thing.

I have never tried Standard Class Eurostar to the alps. I am less than happy
with the room in a ski train from London to Paris. The space for bags on
trains assumes that the carriage will be filled mostly with people with no
luggage or just a day bag. On a ski train everybody has a bag for a week and
many will have boot bags and a few will have skis. Some idiot will have
misunderstood that there is airliner type weight limit on a train and brings is
entire household contents with him. Plus everybody has a little bag of goodies.
This creates a claustrophobic atmosphere in an already densely packed seating
layout. Add into this the 24hour party people. Armed with more than enough
booze to get them though eight hours (after six they run out and get
irritable). One will put an ipod speaker system up on the clothes rack and we
will all be treated to a very personal taste in music. You wonder why the kids
are screaming, you can't blame them. Not my idea of fun. Arrive in the alps
or home completely shattered. You need a holiday.

Ian,

A excellent review of going skiing by train. I used to use the snow
train alot when it left from Calais (IIRC there were two: one went to
St. Anton and one to BsM), but have not used them for a couple of years.
We used to get an excellent dinner on the ferry and spend a lot of the
night catching up with my old friends (we met once a year, back then to
go skiing; now it is 2 ski trips and to climbing trips a year!). Last
year I noticed that instead of the ferry they were using the tunnel so
no chance of dinner. It is no suprise, but rather sad, that it is not
operating this year.

A couple of friends use the sitting up service from Ashford (getting to
Waterloo doesn't bear thinking about) and always go first class which
has been about £150 return over Easter. The Satuday night train is
quieter, but even on Friday nights it is good. On Saturday moring they
pitch up at our apartment door in Arc 1600 bearing breakfast at about
7:30 and then on the Satuday night catch the last funicular down and
have a pleasant dinner in Bourg before heading home.

We left Les Arcs at 7:00 last year and they still beat us to Ashford
(the usual 2 hour wait at eurotunnel)

Without doubt if you live in Kent or London it is the most convenient
way to go skiing, but for me once I have managed to get as far as
Ashford the rest is easy so I just keep driving. Now, if they allowed
trains from elsewhere in the UK...

John


Ian Blake wrote:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:52:53 +0100, "Paul Schofield"
paul_AT_sonifex_DOT_co_DOT_uk wrote:


Hi, anyone here travelled by Eurostar? Do they do reductions to the

Alps


Yes but only if the train is empty as travel date approaches. The white train
is also discounted in these circumstances. However it can be dangerous to wait
because these trains do sell out at peak times.


(Moutiers) later in the season, or should I grab what's on offer

before

it's
too late? Skiing Les Meneurs first week of Easter. Cheers, Mike



..snip loads of advice

I looked at overnight Eurostar and was a bit concerned about the arrival
time in Moutier. IIRC it was about 5.30 in the morning (4.30 am GMT). This
just seems like a nightmare to me - you probably won't have any


I am a regular user of overnight snow trains. Originally Eurostar to Paris
Gare du Nord then RER D to Gare de Lyon or Metro to Gare d'Austerlitz. Later I
used the Eurostar overnight and the White Train from Gare du Nord. The white
train is more expensive than the train via Gare d'Austerlitz/du Lyon. Eurostar
direct is the most expensive.

Time does matter if you intend to be on the slopes as the lifts open. I think
the first train into Bourg St Maurice(BSM), the Eurostar at 6.27am. The first
Gare du Lyon train comes in next at 7am. At peak periods the late (midnight)
train from Gare du Lyon arrives around 7.30am. Then the White train turns up
at 8.38am. These times require everything to work like clockwork. One
unexpectedly slow train can throw a spanner in the works. Do not forget these
are not the only trains arriving. On Saturday morning they will be queued up
from Albertville waiting for their turn. Do not forget that it snows in the
alps then all trains move carefully. Trains arrive at Moutiers approximately
45 minutes earlier.

I would like to arrive before 8am to catch a bus. Particularly for the longer
transfers to Tignes or Val Thorens. So I like a train to arrive before 8am. The
Eurostar arrives too early for anywhere in good conditions. To make matters
worse if you are going to a less popular ski train resort eg. Valmorel you may
not be able to get a bus until 9am. Also the White train's 8.38am is too late
for a ideal transfer to Espace Killy. It is even a little late for Les Arcs.
Good for the short transfers from Moutiers though. Weather can effect the
desirability of an early train. One year I caught the bus from BSM around
7.30am. It started to snow. There were some vehicles on the road without snow
chains, inexperienced drivers and generally poor road conditions for everyone.
Progress was slow so I did not arrive in Tignes until around 10.15. A little
late so I am cross. The weather cleared in the afternoon. On Sunday I heard a
local talking about the road conditions. Apparently my bus had arrived 10.15am
then no other bus arrived until 4pm. (Last march no traffic moved at all from
BSM, people stayed in their trains until Monday, very bad for people in cars)

When you go to Les Arcs by train walk the wrong way along the platform to the
bridge. Turn left on the bridge and walk to the end. You will previously have
bought your ski pass online. It is in your jacket pocket so you can walk
straight on to Les Arcs' bottom ski lift, Arc en Ciel (Rainbow) funicular. This
will take you to Arc 1600. If you are not staying in Arc1600 you then catch a
free navette (bus) to Arcs 1800, 1950, 2000. If you are staying at another
resort you walk from the train through the train station to the bus station and
buy a bus ticket to your destination.

You will be able to leave your bags get changed and go skiing. You will not
normally be able to take up your room until late afternoon. Some accommodation
will allow you to leave their bags at the reception or baggage room. Other
times you will need to use the resort baggage room where you may need to pay a
small fee if it is supervised. Until last year I thought this was always
possible, however I went to a cheap residence (that I had been before) but this
time I was told I could not leave my bag, not that unusual but such places
usually have a communal baggerie. Arc 2000 does not, so needless to say I will
never stay with France Location again, anywhere. So I had to take the Navette
back around to Arc 1800 where I knew there were two places to leave my bags.
The standard of baggage rooms vary significantly. The best have toilets,
changing rooms and showers. The worst are unsupervised rooms with shelves. If
it is a pay baggerie roll up your ski bag and put it with your boot bag into
your main bag. You pay per bag.

Mid week you go to the bus station and buy your tickets back to the station
(unless you in Les Arc). On Saturday morning you leave your room and put your
bags back into the baggage room. Have a nice day skiing. Return to the baggage
room get changed catch the booked bus and arrive at the station allowing plenty
of time. For the Eurostar there is plenty of time to get to the station. For
earlier trains you may need to quit before the end of skiing to have a
leisurely transfer. It is sometimes good to finish early. In some resorts
there are restaurants that serve food all day on Saturday. You may not get a
chance of a proper meal again until you are back in the UK.

You have had eight days skiing instead of six. Saturday is the quietest day so
you do not need to find your skiing legs on a busy piste. Then on the second
Saturday when you are the best skier in the world again you can charge around
with reckless abandon on empty reds. That is the good side. The bad side. On
a normal week day if the weather is poor you will just curse your luck and head
back to your hotel a little early. But on the Saturday you have nowhere to go.
If it is horrible you are stuck out in it all day there is no cosy room to
retreat to. Surprisingly exceptionally good weather can be bad too. If you
have had glorious weather all week you have done all the skiing you want to do
for the moment so the second Saturday needs to be endured. This will not change
your craving to go again on Monday morning. However overall eight days is much
better than six.

The travel environment can be less than ideal. On the White train there is a
bar/disco so on the outward journey there are excited youths running up and
down the corridor all night. If you are unlucky you will have loud excited
party types in your shared cabin of six couchettes. Usually cohabities are
well behaved but regrettably no restraint is exercised in the cabin next door.
The journey home is usually more subdued. The French snow trains are much
quieter and nicer in my experience. I prefer the White train to Eurostar but
one of my brothers disagrees. Same reservations apply to the Blue train (Ferry
to Calais, not running this year?).

First class Eurostar is an acceptable alternative. Outward bound we are given
champagne, wine, food tea coffee. We are also given a little bag of goodies.
We are awakened annoyingly early so people bound for Moutiers can have
breakfast. Similarly on the homeward journey we are not given food until after
Moutiers which is a little late for supper. Sleeping is not easy sitting up.
Sometimes the 1st class carriage is quite empty so it is possible to claim an
extra seat and sleep across two. It is still isn't comfortable but it is
better. On the return journey the train parks up in the Gare du Nord so that
is does not arrive before Waterloo opens. This is annoying the lights are very
bright and stations should serve trains not the other way around. Arriving
back in london an hour earlier would be a good thing.

I have never tried Standard Class Eurostar to the alps. I am less than happy
with the room in a ski train from London to Paris. The space for bags on
trains assumes that the carriage will be filled mostly with people with no
luggage or just a day bag. On a ski train everybody has a bag for a week and
many will have boot bags and a few will have skis. Some idiot will have
misunderstood that there is airliner type weight limit on a train and brings is
entire household contents with him. Plus everybody has a little bag of goodies.
This creates a claustrophobic atmosphere in an already densely packed seating
layout. Add into this the 24hour party people. Armed with more than enough
booze to get them though eight hours (after six they run out and get
irritable). One will put an ipod speaker system up on the clothes rack and we
will all be treated to a very personal taste in music. You wonder why the kids
are screaming, you can't blame them. Not my idea of fun. Arrive in the alps
or home completely shattered. You need a holiday.

I live in Lincoln and have previusly used charter flights out of East
Midlands, Leeds Bradford, Gatwick once! (crack of sparrows BA flight
to Sion and thence in Zermatt for noon) and KLM via Amsterdam to
Geneva.

I now catch an 0730 GNER from Newrark to Kings Cross, taxi direct to
the Eurostar terminal at Waterloo (looking forward to it moving to St
Pancras next year) and breeze through in time to get a coffee before
taking our "first" class seats. 7 hours later we get off at Moutiers
and are met by TVT who whisk us up to Courchevel.

Door to door is just under 13 hours, relaxed!!!! Even better on the
return as you leave the hotel only one hour before the train departs.
I've never achieved anything quicker, or with less hassle, by flying.

Chambery is a nightmare and Geneva keep you coralled in the retail
area until your flight arrives at the gate so nowhere to sit. Lyon
seems out of favour with airlines this year.

Stan







On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:37:37 +0100, "MPW"
wrote:

Early arrival no prob to us. Have 2 kids and we're looking forward to using
the tobbogans we're taking along in the morning,after a leisurely breakfast,
followed by pre-booked equipment hire, apartment check in and an afternoon
ski on the local slopes. Then an early night. That's the theory, anyway! I
sure look forward to just having a 15 min taxi ride to Waterloo instead of
a 1hr/£50 each way pre dawn cab ride followed by 90 min stand around at
Gatwick. City Airport was the other possibility but cheaper flights just
gone.
Will report after the event!
Cheers, Mike

"Stan Mullery" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:38:21 +0100, "MPW"
wrote:

Hi, anyone here travelled by Eurostar? Do they do reductions to the Alps
(Moutiers) later in the season, or should I grab what's on offer before
it's
too late? Skiing Les Meneurs first week of Easter. Cheers, Mike




I've used the Saturday "day" service three times now and will be doing
so again the first week of the Easter hols.

Comfortable trip avoiding the hassles of airports and coach transfers.
I usually have TVT pick me up at Moutiers and it's a quick ride up the
hill to Courchevel.

Best part is the section up from Albertville when you see the road
traffic at a standstill.

Remember, it's supposed to be a holiday your going on so get a ticket
now and avoid the airport hassles.

Stan

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:13:43 +0100, Stan Mullery
wrote:

Door to door is just under 13 hours, relaxed!!!! Even better on the
return as you leave the hotel only one hour before the train departs.
I've never achieved anything quicker, or with less hassle, by flying.

I've done Milton Keynes to Tignes in under 12 hours before, driving,
so it's not exactly a time saving. And if you have, say, four
experienced drivers and a big comfy car (like my Volvo V70XC) it can
also be relaxed journey. Sure, it's not for everyone, and kids make a
big difference, but the cost savings are not inconsiderable.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:20:04 +0200, Ace wrote:

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:13:43 +0100, Stan Mullery
wrote:

Door to door is just under 13 hours, relaxed!!!! Even better on the
return as you leave the hotel only one hour before the train departs.
I've never achieved anything quicker, or with less hassle, by flying.

I've done Milton Keynes to Tignes in under 12 hours before, driving,
so it's not exactly a time saving. And if you have, say, four
experienced drivers and a big comfy car (like my Volvo V70XC) it can
also be relaxed journey. Sure, it's not for everyone, and kids make a
big difference, but the cost savings are not inconsiderable.





Cost savings and kids don't exactly go together......

On 18th Feb this year we got to La Tania on time with no hassle.
Later that evening we talked with a familly who had flown into
Chambery at noon. 10 hour transfer to resort!!!

Even TVT with their French registered vehicles were forced off the
back roads by the police onto the main autoroute. Weather was OK,
just sheet volume of traffic and the inevitable impatience causing
minot bumps and thus blockage.

When I ski Switzerland I'll fly into Geneva and then use train to
resort. Zermant, Chateau D'Oex and Verbier are all easy to get to.

Stan

Ace wrote:
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:13:43 +0100, Stan Mullery
wrote:


Door to door is just under 13 hours, relaxed!!!! Even better on the
return as you leave the hotel only one hour before the train departs.
I've never achieved anything quicker, or with less hassle, by flying.


I've done Milton Keynes to Tignes in under 12 hours before, driving,
so it's not exactly a time saving. And if you have, say, four
experienced drivers and a big comfy car (like my Volvo V70XC) it can
also be relaxed journey. Sure, it's not for everyone, and kids make a
big difference, but the cost savings are not inconsiderable.



Yes, kids make a big difference. Much easier to dump them in the car and
drive. If they are little then it is much easier to find and remember
all the bags etc in the car. Our son used to be asleep before we even
got to the channel. He would then wake up just before the resort. No
need for eyes in the back of your head and worrying that he will get off
the train at some intermediate station unnoticed! Certainly driving is
the easiest way with children.

John