Vasaloppet training (pitfalls)

Janne G wrote in message ...


60-90min EVERY EVENING? You have a ~10hour/week schedule?

Yes: "More volume than sense" is my motto:-)

Mon 12th 1:20
Tue 1:20 +
Wed 1:20
Thu 1:30 -
Fri 1:00 +
Sat 2:30
Sun 3:00 ("back-to-back" long ski)
0:45 - (recovery run)
Total 12:45

Mon 19th 1:20
Tue 1:30
Wed 1:20 +
Thu rest
Fri 1:20 +
Sat 1:20 -
1:30
Sun 2:10
Total 10:40

The "+"-sessions are "interval-type" on a short "half
up/half down and flat" loop, and the "-" are real easy.
The bulk consists of the usual too-much-in-the-middle-
zone sessions (with doublepoling fartleks thrown in),
and the work in the "top register" is glaring in its
absence.

But to paraphrase the saying - which at least very
young men believe to be true:-) - that "Every night
slept alone is a crime against nature", every minute
of skiing (which RL restrictions or snow conditions
allow) spent indooors recovering from a hard session
would make me crazy:-)

I´ll *try* and do one sharp workout (a 5x1:20(40s)(2min)
10X35s(25s) session, for instance) and one long 3-4hrs
each week *and* keep the easy days easy.


FWIW when there´s no snow it´s so easy to skimp on
training in Nov-Dec when it´s dark and the goal race
is "so far away", and it´s so tempting to "get in
gear" and to go overboard when the snow finally arrives.
We certainly wouldn´t be the first available time
athletes who have fallen into that pitfall...

(Description of my current symptoms: I find it rather
easy to climb a certain long, "herring-bone" steep hill
with an "on top"-HR of 86%max; with 88% I´m making an
effort but I "could go on and on": but when I try to
climb at 90% it´s so hard I hate to do it and I sure
couldn´t switch to doublepoling on the top.

Maybe I´m in a "diesel-only"-mode (due to TMITM), or
maybe my motor has decreased due to a lack of specific
training impulses...




Have you done any "Seedning" race up to now then?

I trust to do reasonably well in the Finlandia on the
21st - and "reasonably" is here defined as "as high as
I deserve, which probably is not high enough to grant
me a seeding anywhere near the 6-hour-group, which I
would be a fool to aim for, anyway".

A year older, a year wiser, you know:-)


Anders

Anders Lustig wrote:

Janne G wrote in message ...

60-90min EVERY EVENING? You have a ~10hour/week schedule?

Yes: "More volume than sense" is my motto:-)

Mon 12th 1:20
Tue 1:20 +
Wed 1:20
Thu 1:30 -
Fri 1:00 +
Sat 2:30
Sun 3:00 ("back-to-back" long ski)
0:45 - (recovery run)
Total 12:45

Mon 19th 1:20
Tue 1:30
Wed 1:20 +
Thu rest
Fri 1:20 +
Sat 1:20 -
1:30
Sun 2:10
Total 10:40

The "+"-sessions are "interval-type" on a short "half
up/half down and flat" loop, and the "-" are real easy.
The bulk consists of the usual too-much-in-the-middle-
zone sessions (with doublepoling fartleks thrown in),
and the work in the "top register" is glaring in its
absence.

But to paraphrase the saying - which at least very
young men believe to be true:-) - that "Every night
slept alone is a crime against nature", every minute
of skiing (which RL restrictions or snow conditions
allow) spent indooors recovering from a hard session
would make me crazy:-)

I´ll *try* and do one sharp workout (a 5x1:20(40s)(2min)
10X35s(25s) session, for instance) and one long 3-4hrs
each week *and* keep the easy days easy.

Hm, now i see why you can get so many hours/week.
I did some thing like this some year ago but i could not adjust the shorter
sessions to be an easy session, they allways tend to be harder than
intended. The result was that i could not do races over 20k whitout
"bonking" at the end, the worst case was a 50k race where i was
standing 13k from end and discussing with my self if i should abandon.
I didn't, but i think i lost 17min on that last 13k.
I will not discuss that years Vasalopp.

FWIW when there´s no snow it´s so easy to skimp on
training in Nov-Dec when it´s dark and the goal race
is "so far away", and it´s so tempting to "get in
gear" and to go overboard when the snow finally arrives.
We certainly wouldn´t be the first available time
athletes who have fallen into that pitfall...

Hey, take the paddle, we are in the same boat then.. ;-)
But i hope that i'm getting out of my "overtraining" periode right now
with a decent feeling in the last race (even if the result didn't say so).
It have started to be fun again to skii and thats my interpretation of
being on the way out of this dreaded zone of bad form.

(Description of my current symptoms: I find it rather
easy to climb a certain long, "herring-bone" steep hill
with an "on top"-HR of 86%max; with 88% I´m making an
effort but I "could go on and on": but when I try to
climb at 90% it´s so hard I hate to do it and I sure
couldn´t switch to doublepoling on the top.

Maybe I´m in a "diesel-only"-mode (due to TMITM), or
maybe my motor has decreased due to a lack of specific
training impulses...

It sound like the Diesel mode to me, to much middle of the road training.
It feels like hitting your head in the roof when trying?

Have you done any "Seedning" race up to now then?

I trust to do reasonably well in the Finlandia on the
21st - and "reasonably" is here defined as "as high as
I deserve, which probably is not high enough to grant
me a seeding anywhere near the 6-hour-group, which I
would be a fool to aim for, anyway".

It can be hard to do a decent race when doing it for the first time.
Don't expect to much the first time, the restrains have to be on
all the way to not blow up.

A year older, a year wiser, you know:-)

You think....

The only diffrent between a boy and a man is the pricetag on the toys.

--

Forward in all directions

Janne G

Janne G wrote in message ...

Hm, now i see why you can get so many hours/week.
I did some thing like this some year ago but i could not adjust the shorter
sessions to be an easy session, they allways tend to be harder than
intended. The result was that i could not do races over 20k whitout
"bonking" at the end, the worst case was a 50k race where i was
standing 13k from end and discussing with my self if i should abandon.
I didn't, but i think i lost 17min on that last 13k.
I will not discuss that years Vasalopp.

I think my aerobic endurance base is okay (or slightly
better than that, I like to think), my technique at
long race pace is as economical and relaxed as it gets,
and the following weekends´ long sessions (coupled with
sufficient rest) *should* prevent my ending up in such
a state - *if* I can keep my head cool during the race.

OTOH there is less than six weeks to the big day, which
means I have only three training-pace and one racing-pace
(Finlandia) long ones left; I´m not sure that is enough
to "turn the boat" if I´m already badly off course...


Hey, take the paddle, we are in the same boat then.. ;-)
But i hope that i'm getting out of my "overtraining" periode right now
with a decent feeling in the last race (even if the result didn't say so).
It have started to be fun again to skii and thats my interpretation of
being on the way out of this dreaded zone of bad form.

If you´d lost the sheer joy of skiing, it must´ve been
real bad:-)

For me, only the kick of being able to turn up the revs
high is gone...



It sound like the Diesel mode to me, to much middle of the road training.
It feels like hitting your head in the roof when trying?

That´s it, it´s exactly like that. It happens before
there can be any temporary lactate overload, oxygen
debt or whatever.

I though this only happened to the guys who do 50 km
every day....


It can be hard to do a decent race when doing it for the first time.
Don't expect to much the first time, the restrains have to be on
all the way to not blow up.

Which is why I´m not too concerned about maybe starting
too far back:-)


Anders

Anders Lustig wrote:

Janne G wrote in message ...

I think my aerobic endurance base is okay (or slightly
better than that, I like to think), my technique at
long race pace is as economical and relaxed as it gets,
and the following weekends´ long sessions (coupled with
sufficient rest) *should* prevent my ending up in such
a state - *if* I can keep my head cool during the race.

OTOH there is less than six weeks to the big day, which
means I have only three training-pace and one racing-pace
(Finlandia) long ones left; I´m not sure that is enough
to "turn the boat" if I´m already badly off course...

I would sudgest to diverse your training more, harder shorter sessions
but beaware to not do the intervalls so long that you start accumulate to
much lactic accid, the goal off the session is not to withstand lactic accid,
it's aimed to make you develop the O2 carrying systems.
Longer slower sessions (around 2.5-3hours )and take a day more off
to rest better. The longer sessions is rather hard on your body if you
are doing them at a higher pace, use them as technique training also,
especially at the end of the session.

Hey, take the paddle, we are in the same boat then.. ;-)
But i hope that i'm getting out of my "overtraining" periode right now
with a decent feeling in the last race (even if the result didn't say so).
It have started to be fun again to skii and thats my interpretation of
being on the way out of this dreaded zone of bad form.

If you´d lost the sheer joy of skiing, it must´ve been
real bad:-)

It have been bad for some weeks, so i have rested more than usual, this
is the result of the snow comming so late. To little training off snow
accompanied with to much training on snow.

It sound like the Diesel mode to me, to much middle of the road training.
It feels like hitting your head in the roof when trying?

That´s it, it´s exactly like that. It happens before
there can be any temporary lactate overload, oxygen
debt or whatever.

I though this only happened to the guys who do 50 km
every day....

Hm, it can also be the same syndrom that i have had, the muscles are to fatigued
to take the available O2 and do something with it. Low HR even when i
tried to work hard and it feelt like i was hitting my head in the roof
in a wrong constructed room when trying.

--

Forward in all directions

Janne G