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Telemarking on Non Fluffy Snow



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 13th 07, 06:54 PM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry
EdV
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Posts: 53
Default Telemarking on Non Fluffy Snow

I went to practice telmark turns on the green runs at Afton
Alps(Hastings, MN) last Sunday and didn't feel like I had I was
getting enough edge to feel in control. It was around 10 F on fresh
groomed. Last year I felt fine on these runs but the snow was just a
little slushy at 28F.

The question:

Can getting "lower" help. As in bending knees deeper. It seemed like
it was when I tried it but it was hard to tell on such short runs.
Recall being told this but I didn't really understand how that could
help edge control.

Thanks much,
Ed V.

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  #2  
Old February 14th 07, 08:30 AM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry
Peter Clinch
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Posts: 48
Default Telemarking on Non Fluffy Snow

EdV wrote:
I went to practice telmark turns on the green runs at Afton
Alps(Hastings, MN) last Sunday and didn't feel like I had I was
getting enough edge to feel in control. It was around 10 F on fresh
groomed. Last year I felt fine on these runs but the snow was just a
little slushy at 28F.

The question:

Can getting "lower" help. As in bending knees deeper. It seemed like
it was when I tried it but it was hard to tell on such short runs.
Recall being told this but I didn't really understand how that could
help edge control.


Most important is getting weight over the edges, so make sure you don't
bank the turn. Your body should ideally be in a banana-shape, the trunk
turning back up the way to get the weight as close to directly over the
skis as you can manage. I think "angulation" is the buzz-word usually
applied to this.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #3  
Old February 15th 07, 07:56 PM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry
Booker C. Bense
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Posts: 1
Default Telemarking on Non Fluffy Snow

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In article . com,
EdV wrote:
I went to practice telmark turns on the green runs at Afton
Alps(Hastings, MN) last Sunday and didn't feel like I had I was
getting enough edge to feel in control. It was around 10 F on fresh
groomed. Last year I felt fine on these runs but the snow was just a
little slushy at 28F.

The question:

Can getting "lower" help. As in bending knees deeper. It seemed like
it was when I tried it but it was hard to tell on such short runs.
Recall being told this but I didn't really understand how that could
help edge control.


_ Bend at the hips and ankles, let the knees do just enough to
keep up. On the front ski you want to feel pressure on both the
shin and the heel driving into the turn, on the back ski you to
feel that little toe pushing into the center of the turn.

_ You will probably end up slightly lower than usual, but
thinking low is a misleading mental image. You want to be
centered and pushing through your skis, with your feet mostly
underneath you. Getting low because you are edging hard is fine,
getting low because you are spreading your stance wide generally
doesn't help. On hard stuff you need to pressure that edge and
get the ski bending. For concentrating on ankle flex and bending
enough at the waist to keep my shoulders square to the fall line
works quite well. I do end up in a fairly low stance, but that's
only a side effect so to speak.

_ A lot of this stuff is getting the right mental image and body
feedback clues. What works for me, might not work for you. By now
there are plenty of online lessons and tutorials for telemarking,
keep trying the various mental tricks until you find one that
works for you.

_ Booker C. Bense



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  #4  
Old February 20th 07, 12:37 AM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry
shields
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Telemarking on Non Fluffy Snow

It could be your gear. An upgrade may be what you need.


"EdV" wrote in message
ups.com...
I went to practice telmark turns on the green runs at Afton
Alps(Hastings, MN) last Sunday and didn't feel like I had I was
getting enough edge to feel in control. It was around 10 F on fresh
groomed. Last year I felt fine on these runs but the snow was just a
little slushy at 28F.

The question:

Can getting "lower" help. As in bending knees deeper. It seemed like
it was when I tried it but it was hard to tell on such short runs.
Recall being told this but I didn't really understand how that could
help edge control.

Thanks much,
Ed V.



  #5  
Old February 20th 07, 08:46 AM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry
Peter Clinch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Telemarking on Non Fluffy Snow

shields wrote:
It could be your gear. An upgrade may be what you need.


You can generally upgrade gear /and/ skills. A friend of mine who's a
BASI coach can out-ski me downhill if he's on lightweight touring kit
and floppy boots and I'm in full-on piste gear. More skill applies to
all gear though, I don't think one should ever abandon getting better as
a general goal

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #6  
Old February 21st 07, 02:06 AM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry
shields
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Telemarking on Non Fluffy Snow

True, a skilled violinist can make any old fiddle sound good. For me, I do
not have enough time on the snow to rely on practice, strength and skill.
As time goes by, I need every technological edge I can get. I am now making
far better turns with my plastic boots and wider metal edged skis than I did
20 years ago with my leather boots and skinny skis. All I have to do is get
the old boots and skis out to see it isn't because my skills are that much
improved.

"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...
shields wrote:
It could be your gear. An upgrade may be what you need.


You can generally upgrade gear /and/ skills. A friend of mine who's a
BASI coach can out-ski me downhill if he's on lightweight touring kit and
floppy boots and I'm in full-on piste gear. More skill applies to all
gear though, I don't think one should ever abandon getting better as a
general goal

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/



  #7  
Old February 22nd 07, 07:46 PM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry
EdV
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Telemarking on Non Fluffy Snow

gear?--

I am going to focus on technique. I think getting a better hockey stop
at the end of the run is the big thing. I can ski around the people
on the slopes. It is down at the bottom of the run where huge masses
of people tend to collect that it gets a little hairy.

We are supposed to get snow in Minneapolis this weekend so I am
looking forward to some sweet mellow carving in semi fluffy snow.

Thanks much to all,
Ed V.

  #8  
Old March 8th 07, 06:54 PM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry
[email protected]
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Posts: 2
Default Telemarking on Non Fluffy Snow

A lot of it is just practice on harder snow, as it acts much
differently than powder. Make sure to distribute your weight through
both skis, and drive with the edges. It'll feel a lot different than
powder, but then again, its almost a different game.
-Rusty

On Feb 22, 2:46 pm, "EdV" wrote:
gear?--

I am going to focus on technique. I think getting a better hockey stop
at the end of the run is the big thing. I can ski around the people
on the slopes. It is down at the bottom of the run where huge masses
of people tend to collect that it gets a little hairy.

We are supposed to get snow in Minneapolis this weekend so I am
looking forward to some sweet mellow carving in semi fluffy snow.

Thanks much to all,
Ed V.



  #9  
Old March 11th 07, 02:46 AM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry
Mike
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Posts: 5
Default Telemarking on Non Fluffy Snow

I've seen much about 'driving' edges and getting low etc. in this thread.
That's fine but how to effectively edge and when to 'drive' them is the key.
Same idea with getting low. Some folks can visualize others are better
learning with feeling. The CSIA (Canadian Ski Instructors Association) and
CANSI (Canadian Association of Nordic Ski Instructors) generally use five
basic skills to develop and improve skiing:

Stance & Balance
Steering or Pivoting
Edging
Pressure Control
Timing & Coordination

All of these skills are evident in every turn we make, but we need to adjust
or meter their use constantly according to snow conditions and the dynamics
of the turn. Angulation is a key word in edging as described in an earlier
response. This is achieved by bending or articulating all the lower joints
including the hip, while keeping the upper body or center of mass centered
and in balance throughout the turn. Someone also mentioned in an earlier
response to feel the little toe in the rear boot, that's a great 'feel' to
strive for and should help you increase the edge angle of the rear ski.
Conversely, think of pressuring the inside ankle of your leading foot for
increased edge of the forward ski. You need to move your forward knee into
the turn and try to bend the ankle inside the boot to help achieve this.

One of the more important skills, often overlooked, when skiing the harder
conditions (groomers & ice) is Pressure Control. That's where I'm not sure
"driving" the edges is necessarily the best way to proceed. Much also
depends on the radius of turn you wish to make. Racers try to achieve a good
edge angle very early in the turn, then extend the joints (ankles, knees &
hips) laterally through the center of the turn and finish off the turn by
'sucking' back the joints or absorbing the pressure. Ideally you want to
strive for constant/even pressure on both skis throughout the turn in hard
or icy conditions. This way there is less chance of 'losing' one or both
edges and crashing to the inside of the turn, the painful old hip slide. If
you drive the edges too hard near the end of the turn (too much pressure at
once), this is invariably what will happen ... unless you're a slalom racer
and love the bullet proof stuff.

Use of the low stance may or may not be necessary, again depending on
conditions and the dynamics of the turns you wish to make. If you stay low
throughout the turn, it's more difficult to control the pressure on the
edges as described above, since you have no way of regulating by absorbing,
especially if you're skiing at any kind of speed. You've gone as low as you
can go and as more pressure builds at the end of the turn, you have nothing
left to absorb... Therefore, on the groomers, think about initiating the
turn fairly tall, joints almost straight as you make the lead change. Now
steer the skis into the new turn, do the angulation thing to start edging
and as the pressure builds under the skis, gradually suck up the legs to
keep the pressure even through the remainder of the turn. You can finish the
turn as low as you wish depending on your speed and how much you need to
absorb to keep the pressure regulated effectively. In preparation for the
next turn, think tall again, that is, stand up during the lead change which
will ease off the pressure in preparation for the next turn...easier to
steer that way. If you start the turn a little lower, then you may need to
think about extending a little at the beginning of the turn to keep the skis
on the snow.

A good drill to help get the feel of pressure control is to execute a bunch
of turns standing as tall as you can through the whole turn. Then do another
bunch getting as low as possible through the entire turn. Effective edging
can be a challenge in both of these scenarios. Finally, crank another bunch
of turns using your joints to full advantage, tall to initiate and low to
finish.... 'feel' the difference!

Mike


"EdV" wrote in message
ups.com...
I went to practice telmark turns on the green runs at Afton
Alps(Hastings, MN) last Sunday and didn't feel like I had I was
getting enough edge to feel in control. It was around 10 F on fresh
groomed. Last year I felt fine on these runs but the snow was just a
little slushy at 28F.

The question:

Can getting "lower" help. As in bending knees deeper. It seemed like
it was when I tried it but it was hard to tell on such short runs.
Recall being told this but I didn't really understand how that could
help edge control.

Thanks much,
Ed V.



  #10  
Old March 11th 07, 04:53 PM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry
_Uli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Telemarking on Non Fluffy Snow

Am Sonntag, den 11.03.2007, 02:46 +0000 schrieb Mike:

[ many reasonable stuff ...]


Mike, don't you think that's a little bit too much theory? I look at
telemarking as a "happy island" where is not so much dogmatism like in
many (not all - scandinavians or, in recent times, suisse as well are
exceptions) ski school curricula. And not at least that's a point
wherefor i like teleskiing.

For me, the best thing to learn telemarking (and skiing generally) in
bad or difficult snow conditions is: Do it! Ski the heavvy snow, the
packed snow ecc. After a while you'll find out how to do it best. Trust
you're feelings and make the skis go! :-) :-)

Cheers,

Uli


 




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