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Turning on flat skis?



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 19th 09, 12:04 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Alan Baker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,864
Default Turning on flat skis?

In article
,
taichiskiing wrote:

On Nov 18, 12:58 pm, VtSkier wrote:

I'm confused. In Part 2 we saw a lot of footage
of racer dudes (& dudettes) working very hard
to be up on their edges. The slalom skier skidded
a bit more than the GSers, but none-the-less
was trying hard not to.


My guess what he tries to say is that at the best you get 2% of pure
carving and 98% of skidding/sideslipping turn even in racing. He
doesn't seem to distinguish "skidding" and "slipping" neither, but he
does occasionally use "slipping edges" to make "slipping turns."


Your guess is (unsurprisingly) completely wrong.

He's saying that there are times when in order to get around the gate,
you must abandon carving even though it means losing speed.


Then the instructor type guy (especially in Part 1)
showed all of his turns skidded. This guy was doing
'flat ski' until he got into the really steep
when he was bouncing off his edges and skidded
rarely if at all, since each turn started from
edges and ended up on edges (opposite).


His "turning on flat skis" is another example of "line-skiing." He may
not come to admit, but he is a flatboarder/flatskier.


Nope. He's a good skier.


Are we at all sure this is 'modern' technique?


Methinks that he may have issues with 'modern' "teaching" as well as
he derides the pure carve and RRT turns, or he just reinvented the
classic--skidded-turns, more practical.


Modern teaching hasn't abandoned skidded turns.


It looks for all the world what I was learning
in the 60's for effective braking turns.
Make a platform (traverse strongly edged)
Release edges, perform turning maneuver
(steering or hop)
Bring skis around to opposite direction traverse
Set edges
Repeat


He teaches the beginner parallel turn by teaching her sideslipping
first,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMgjb5z71pE
in Chinese (original),
or



http://www.youtube.com/user/SKIPANDA...W&hl=zh-TW#p/u


Which is precisely what modern teaching does.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg
Ads
  #12  
Old November 19th 09, 12:56 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 344
Default Turning on flat skis?

Walt wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

Are we at all sure this is 'modern' technique?

It looks for all the world what I was learning
in the 60's for effective braking turns.
Make a platform (traverse strongly edged)
Release edges, perform turning maneuver
(steering or hop)
Bring skis around to opposite direction traverse
Set edges
Repeat


Well, it worked in the 60's, didn't it? It should work just as well today.

Of course, there are other techniques that may work better.

Anyway, you can read his screed at
http://www.skipanda.com/Ski%20Carvin...%20Article.pdf
Sounds like a combination of footer, itchy, and the unabomber....


Oh, now I get it, he was poo-pooing carving.


And then the instructor guy was dressed in an
80's body bag.


Where did your 60's ski instructor get an 80's fart bag? Did he have a
time machine?


Nah, he was an 80's skier. Technique was the same
since skis were (basically) the same. In the 60's
we wore either stretch pants (great on women,
especially after the addition of spandex) or
jeans sprayed with Scotch Guard (known as Bagners).


//Walt

  #13  
Old November 19th 09, 01:05 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 344
Default Turning on flat skis?

taichiskiing wrote:
On Nov 18, 12:58 pm, VtSkier wrote:

I'm confused. In Part 2 we saw a lot of footage
of racer dudes (& dudettes) working very hard
to be up on their edges. The slalom skier skidded
a bit more than the GSers, but none-the-less
was trying hard not to.


My guess what he tries to say is that at the best you get 2% of pure
carving and 98% of skidding/sideslipping turn even in racing. He
doesn't seem to distinguish "skidding" and "slipping" neither, but he
does occasionally use "slipping edges" to make "slipping turns."

Then the instructor type guy (especially in Part 1)
showed all of his turns skidded. This guy was doing
'flat ski' until he got into the really steep
when he was bouncing off his edges and skidded
rarely if at all, since each turn started from
edges and ended up on edges (opposite).


His "turning on flat skis" is another example of "line-skiing." He may
not come to admit, but he is a flatboarder/flatskier.

Are we at all sure this is 'modern' technique?


Methinks that he may have issues with 'modern' "teaching" as well as
he derides the pure carve and RRT turns, or he just reinvented the
classic--skidded-turns, more practical.

It looks for all the world what I was learning
in the 60's for effective braking turns.
Make a platform (traverse strongly edged)
Release edges, perform turning maneuver
(steering or hop)
Bring skis around to opposite direction traverse
Set edges
Repeat


He teaches the beginner parallel turn by teaching her sideslipping
first,


IMO, a good way. It gives a tool for control
without resorting to the leg destroying
wedge/snowplow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMgjb5z71pE
in Chinese (original),
or

http://www.youtube.com/user/SKIPANDA...W&hl=zh-TW#p/u


Uhm, that was French.


And then the instructor guy was dressed in an
80's body bag.


That's his uniform, guess mainland China's skiing is a bit behind.


At least in style.



IS


By the way, I won't be making it to your fair state
this winter.
  #14  
Old November 19th 09, 01:28 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
downhill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 644
Default Turning on flat skis?

VtSkier wrote:
Walt wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

Are we at all sure this is 'modern' technique?

It looks for all the world what I was learning
in the 60's for effective braking turns.
Make a platform (traverse strongly edged)
Release edges, perform turning maneuver
(steering or hop)
Bring skis around to opposite direction traverse
Set edges
Repeat


Well, it worked in the 60's, didn't it? It should work just as well
today.

Of course, there are other techniques that may work better.

Anyway, you can read his screed at
http://www.skipanda.com/Ski%20Carvin...%20Article.pdf
Sounds like a combination of footer, itchy, and the unabomber....


Oh, now I get it, he was poo-pooing carving.



where did you think he was going to go, he comes back about every 2
months with an other method to try to prove his point that still makes
no sense.
The use of rational thought and the ability to present a point using
standard english and proper rules of physics and mathematics that is
understood by anybody is not one of tie cheeses abilities.

I looked parts of this video and the only time his skis were flat was
when he transitioned from one turn to an other
  #15  
Old November 19th 09, 01:58 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Yabahoobs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,406
Default Turning on flat skis?

On Nov 18, 5:05*pm, VtSkier wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:
On Nov 18, 12:58 pm, VtSkier wrote:


I'm confused. In Part 2 we saw a lot of footage
of racer dudes (& dudettes) working very hard
to be up on their edges. The slalom skier skidded
a bit more than the GSers, but none-the-less
was trying hard not to.


My guess what he tries to say is that at the best you get 2% of pure
carving and 98% of skidding/sideslipping turn even in racing. He
doesn't seem to distinguish "skidding" and "slipping" neither, but he
does occasionally use "slipping edges" to make "slipping turns."


Then the instructor type guy (especially in Part 1)
showed all of his turns skidded. This guy was doing
'flat ski' until he got into the really steep
when he was bouncing off his edges and skidded
rarely if at all, since each turn started from
edges and ended up on edges (opposite).


His "turning on flat skis" is another example of "line-skiing." He may
not come to admit, but he is a flatboarder/flatskier.


Are we at all sure this is 'modern' technique?


Methinks that he may have issues with 'modern' "teaching" as well as
he derides the pure carve and RRT turns, or he just reinvented the
classic--skidded-turns, more practical.


It looks for all the world what I was learning
in the 60's for effective braking turns.
Make a platform (traverse strongly edged)
Release edges, perform turning maneuver
* * *(steering or hop)
Bring skis around to opposite direction traverse
Set edges
Repeat


He teaches the beginner parallel turn by teaching her sideslipping
first,


IMO, a good way. It gives a tool for control
without resorting to the leg destroying
wedge/snowplow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMgjb5z71pE
in Chinese (original),
or


http://www.youtube.com/user/SKIPANDA...W&hl=zh-TW#p/u


Uhm, that was French.



And then the instructor guy was dressed in an
80's body bag.


That's his uniform, guess mainland China's skiing is a bit behind.


At least in style.




IS


By the way, I won't be making it to your fair state
this winter.


State of mind ?
  #16  
Old November 19th 09, 02:23 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 344
Default Turning on flat skis?

Yabahoobs wrote:
On Nov 18, 5:05 pm, VtSkier wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:
On Nov 18, 12:58 pm, VtSkier wrote:
I'm confused. In Part 2 we saw a lot of footage
of racer dudes (& dudettes) working very hard
to be up on their edges. The slalom skier skidded
a bit more than the GSers, but none-the-less
was trying hard not to.
My guess what he tries to say is that at the best you get 2% of pure
carving and 98% of skidding/sideslipping turn even in racing. He
doesn't seem to distinguish "skidding" and "slipping" neither, but he
does occasionally use "slipping edges" to make "slipping turns."
Then the instructor type guy (especially in Part 1)
showed all of his turns skidded. This guy was doing
'flat ski' until he got into the really steep
when he was bouncing off his edges and skidded
rarely if at all, since each turn started from
edges and ended up on edges (opposite).
His "turning on flat skis" is another example of "line-skiing." He may
not come to admit, but he is a flatboarder/flatskier.
Are we at all sure this is 'modern' technique?
Methinks that he may have issues with 'modern' "teaching" as well as
he derides the pure carve and RRT turns, or he just reinvented the
classic--skidded-turns, more practical.
It looks for all the world what I was learning
in the 60's for effective braking turns.
Make a platform (traverse strongly edged)
Release edges, perform turning maneuver
(steering or hop)
Bring skis around to opposite direction traverse
Set edges
Repeat
He teaches the beginner parallel turn by teaching her sideslipping
first,

IMO, a good way. It gives a tool for control
without resorting to the leg destroying
wedge/snowplow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMgjb5z71pE
in Chinese (original),
or
http://www.youtube.com/user/SKIPANDA...W&hl=zh-TW#p/u

Uhm, that was French.



And then the instructor guy was dressed in an
80's body bag.
That's his uniform, guess mainland China's skiing is a bit behind.

At least in style.




IS

By the way, I won't be making it to your fair state
this winter.


State of mind ?


That either, but we do have fun skiing together.
  #17  
Old November 19th 09, 04:32 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Alan Baker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,864
Default Turning on flat skis?

In article ,
VtSkier wrote:

taichiskiing wrote:
On Nov 18, 12:58 pm, VtSkier wrote:

I'm confused. In Part 2 we saw a lot of footage
of racer dudes (& dudettes) working very hard
to be up on their edges. The slalom skier skidded
a bit more than the GSers, but none-the-less
was trying hard not to.


My guess what he tries to say is that at the best you get 2% of pure
carving and 98% of skidding/sideslipping turn even in racing. He
doesn't seem to distinguish "skidding" and "slipping" neither, but he
does occasionally use "slipping edges" to make "slipping turns."

Then the instructor type guy (especially in Part 1)
showed all of his turns skidded. This guy was doing
'flat ski' until he got into the really steep
when he was bouncing off his edges and skidded
rarely if at all, since each turn started from
edges and ended up on edges (opposite).


His "turning on flat skis" is another example of "line-skiing." He may
not come to admit, but he is a flatboarder/flatskier.

Are we at all sure this is 'modern' technique?


Methinks that he may have issues with 'modern' "teaching" as well as
he derides the pure carve and RRT turns, or he just reinvented the
classic--skidded-turns, more practical.

It looks for all the world what I was learning
in the 60's for effective braking turns.
Make a platform (traverse strongly edged)
Release edges, perform turning maneuver
(steering or hop)
Bring skis around to opposite direction traverse
Set edges
Repeat


He teaches the beginner parallel turn by teaching her sideslipping
first,


IMO, a good way. It gives a tool for control
without resorting to the leg destroying
wedge/snowplow.


And it's not new.

It is precisely what the CSIA has been teaching for some time, now.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg
  #18  
Old November 19th 09, 06:05 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
lal_truckee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,348
Default Turning on flat skis?

VtSkier wrote:

By the way, I won't be making it to your fair state
this winter.


oh?
  #19  
Old November 19th 09, 01:01 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 344
Default Turning on flat skis?

Alan Baker wrote:
In article ,
VtSkier wrote:

taichiskiing wrote:
On Nov 18, 12:58 pm, VtSkier wrote:

I'm confused. In Part 2 we saw a lot of footage
of racer dudes (& dudettes) working very hard
to be up on their edges. The slalom skier skidded
a bit more than the GSers, but none-the-less
was trying hard not to.
My guess what he tries to say is that at the best you get 2% of pure
carving and 98% of skidding/sideslipping turn even in racing. He
doesn't seem to distinguish "skidding" and "slipping" neither, but he
does occasionally use "slipping edges" to make "slipping turns."

Then the instructor type guy (especially in Part 1)
showed all of his turns skidded. This guy was doing
'flat ski' until he got into the really steep
when he was bouncing off his edges and skidded
rarely if at all, since each turn started from
edges and ended up on edges (opposite).
His "turning on flat skis" is another example of "line-skiing." He may
not come to admit, but he is a flatboarder/flatskier.

Are we at all sure this is 'modern' technique?
Methinks that he may have issues with 'modern' "teaching" as well as
he derides the pure carve and RRT turns, or he just reinvented the
classic--skidded-turns, more practical.

It looks for all the world what I was learning
in the 60's for effective braking turns.
Make a platform (traverse strongly edged)
Release edges, perform turning maneuver
(steering or hop)
Bring skis around to opposite direction traverse
Set edges
Repeat
He teaches the beginner parallel turn by teaching her sideslipping
first,

IMO, a good way. It gives a tool for control
without resorting to the leg destroying
wedge/snowplow.


And it's not new.

It is precisely what the CSIA has been teaching for some time, now.


1. Absolutely not new. We called it 'chicken plow'
back in the 60's. A great way to get out of trouble.

2. An astonishing number of people around here don't
know how to do it effectively when they get into
trouble. You should see all the people who *try* to
wedge/snowplow through bumps. It's a disaster.
  #20  
Old November 19th 09, 01:02 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 344
Default Turning on flat skis?

lal_truckee wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

By the way, I won't be making it to your fair state
this winter.


oh?


Right. It's the economy.
 




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