No more pits?

Saw the following article online at http://www.theage.com.au/

Avalanche detector developed
By Deborah Smith
June 23, 2004

Sydney scientist Warwick Payten was climbing Makalu, the world's
fifth-highest peak in Nepal, when the snow began to slip from under
him.

"The fracture only happened a couple of feet above me," he recalls of
his 1993 escape. "I sort of ran on the spot and the slab went off down
the hill."

To prevent some of the 150 deaths worldwide a year in avalanches, Dr
Payten, an engineer at the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology
Organisation, has helped develop a lightweight probe to test snow
conditions. The work was carried out with adventurer Roddy Mackenzie
and retired ANSTO physicist John Tendys.

Dr Payten said that at present mountaineers and skiers had to dig a
pit and then estimate the snow's stiffness with their hands. This
could take 40 minutes, while it only took two minutes to get an
accurate result from the probe. The device weighs only 1.2 kilograms
and can be carried in a backpack.

Although it needs more development, it is hoped it will eventually be
sold to ski resorts and tour operators.
--

Richard M wrote:
Saw the following article online at http://www.theage.com.au/

Avalanche detector developed
By Deborah Smith
June 23, 2004

I can't find it on that site - guide me?

I was looking to see if any additional info re how the device might work
was available ...

Richard M wrote:

Saw the following article online at http://www.theage.com.au/

Avalanche detector developed [...]

Fascinating. The full article is (eventually) at:
http://tinyurl.com/24q7g

A little Google work on "Warwick Payten" brings up:
www.himachal.com/pics/ISSWPresentation.pdf

from this web site:
http://www.himachal.com/files/safety.htm

The .pdf brochure is a little dense, and I'll have to take some time to
get into it, but apparently the models that have been developed would
allow someone to cruise along a slope on skis and take relatively rapid
readings (2 min per reading vs. 30-50 minutes for a pit) by poking the
pentrometer into the snow pack. Of course there would be some obvious
safety issues with just blindly skiing along on an untested slope, but
it's intiguing.

The Conclusion reads:
The SABRE probe allows snow profiles to be taken
quickly. The absence of subjective interpretation when
operating the probe enables the collection of objective,
quantitative measurements of snow pack strength and
subsequent assessment of stability. Data taken by the
probe correlated well with snow-pit data and any
discrepancies shown was due to the subjective nature of
the snowpit tests. Cross slope profiles can be developed
and give a powerful added insight into slope conditions.
Current development aims to improve distance
measurement and reduce both the size and weight of the
device.

Wow. The Google search also indicates a Dr. Warwick Payten, also from
Oz, also helped develop the first reliable ceramic knee:
http://www.science.uts.edu.au/cmfs/knee.html

If it's the same guy, he could be a fookin' unsung god of skiers.

Thanks for the link.

Bob

Bob Lee wrote:
Fascinating. The full article is (eventually) at:
http://tinyurl.com/24q7g

A little Google work on "Warwick Payten" brings up:
www.himachal.com/pics/ISSWPresentation.pdf

from this web site:
http://www.himachal.com/files/safety.htm

[snip]

Wow. The Google search also indicates a Dr. Warwick Payten, also from
Oz, also helped develop the first reliable ceramic knee:
http://www.science.uts.edu.au/cmfs/knee.html

If it's the same guy, he could be a fookin' unsung god of skiers.

Thanks for the link.

Bob

I found the original article at
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/news.shtm

With regards to the ceramic knee, I thought it was the prosthesis/bone
interface that was the current limiting factor in artificial knee
liftetime? From what I've been told, the prosthetic knee doesn't
usually wear out before the bone where it was inserted (femur and/or
tibia) wears down and the prosthesis becomes too loose.

Now if we can get this Payten dude to start working on self-repairing
P-tex that works well without wax....

This is very interesting. The main problem with manual probing is the
subjective evaluation of resistance and the difficulty of detecting very
thin weak layers (the very layers that are prime sites for failures).
The professional solution is to use motor driven probes with constant
penetration velocity and a force measuring device.

This tool has the force measuring device and also an accelerometer. That
allows accurate force calculations with an unsteady manual probing action.
The graphs included in the presentation seem to indicate that thin weak
layers were located more consistently than in expert dug pits!

No mention of price.

Tommy T.

--

Bob Lee wrote:

Richard M wrote:


Saw the following article online at http://www.theage.com.au/

Avalanche detector developed [...]


Fascinating. The full article is (eventually) at:
http://tinyurl.com/24q7g

A little Google work on "Warwick Payten" brings up:
www.himachal.com/pics/ISSWPresentation.pdf

from this web site:
http://www.himachal.com/files/safety.htm

The .pdf brochure is a little dense, and I'll have to take some time to
get into it, but apparently the models that have been developed would
allow someone to cruise along a slope on skis and take relatively rapid
readings (2 min per reading vs. 30-50 minutes for a pit) by poking the
pentrometer into the snow pack. Of course there would be some obvious
safety issues with just blindly skiing along on an untested slope, but
it's intiguing.

The Conclusion reads:
The SABRE probe allows snow profiles to be taken
quickly. The absence of subjective interpretation when
operating the probe enables the collection of objective,
quantitative measurements of snow pack strength and
subsequent assessment of stability. Data taken by the
probe correlated well with snow-pit data and any
discrepancies shown was due to the subjective nature of
the snowpit tests. Cross slope profiles can be developed
and give a powerful added insight into slope conditions.
Current development aims to improve distance
measurement and reduce both the size and weight of the
device.

However it only tests penetration; it doesn't tell you about crystal
metamorphosis, hoar, or even such absolute basics as sucrosity.

So basically the SABRE probe gives the naive user the same info the
skilled user derives from consistent probing as he goes (plus artificial
memory and a neat plot on your backcountry laptop.) My probe goes 240cm
- looks like his device only goes about 110cm; snowpack around here goes
5m typically. Luckily for either method, the first 3.5m are rock solid
by midseason. But we do see 2m storms often enough to be a concern.


Wow. The Google search also indicates a Dr. Warwick Payten, also from
Oz, also helped develop the first reliable ceramic knee:
http://www.science.uts.edu.au/cmfs/knee.html

If it's the same guy, he could be a fookin' unsung god of skiers.

Gotta get it approved for HMOs soon, though, or I won't even need it
anymore.