3 Vallees Lift Pass

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:12:12 +0000, pete devlin
wrote:

In message , Steve Haigh
writes
. Flaine/ Grand Massif

Oh pullleeeaassse!! Don't get me wrong, I love Flaine, it is a great ski
area. It has more motorways as a percentage than the 3V IMHO and a lot
less off piste.

No way man. You've obviously not spent enought time there :-) There's
really not much 'motorway' stuff when compared with Courchevel
particularly, and _much_ more really good off-piste if you know where
to look.

http://compaqnet.ifrance.com/acenet/flaine1_s.jpg (and 2 & 3 - bigger
files available without the _s) shows us on some of the more
challenging stuff :-)

It does get less tracked out, it has to be said, but it
is not even in the same league.

OK, I've skiied there a lot more than anywhere else (as Ski Club rep
for 2-3 weeks in each of the last 4 seasons, plus a bit more) so I
probably know the off-piste better than many, but I rate it as one of
the top 5 off-piste areas I've ever been to.


--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

Marco Cattaneo wrote:
"Steve Haigh" wrote in message
...

I thought I made it pretty clear that this was my opinion hence it's not
a debate, rather it is a matter of fact that I prefer the skiing in
Flaine to the 3V. I prefer staying in the Grand Massif to staying in the
3V. It is easier to get to (for me at least, flying from the UK). It has
fewer crowds.


[...]

Unfortunately the Compagnie des Alpes, that has recently bought Flaine,
seems to have woken up to the fact the accomodation available in Flaine is
not sufficient to saturate the lift system. They have just got approval for
5000 extra beds. There is a similar number planned in Samoens now that they
have direct access to the ski area with the Grand Massif Express, and there
is talk of building a lift out of Sixt as well.

It won't change the quality of the ski area - by far the best within an
hour's drive of Geneva - but it will surely increase the crowds, at least in
the peak seasons.



And they'll be the new lift from Magland as well. They're going to need
to look at some of the old lifts and flow around a couple of lifts/runs
as well. The return from Tetes des Saix is a disaster toward
Morillon/Samoens/Les Carroz and the queue on the Les Moillets can be a
real pain, 20 mins on one afternoon over Xmass, not a lot by some
standards but still a pain. The linking round Morillon and Les Carroz
just isn't right either, there's at least one lift missing and maybe two.

Ian

Ace wrote:

No way man. You've obviously not spent enought time there :-) There's
really not much 'motorway' stuff when compared with Courchevel
particularly, and _much_ more really good off-piste if you know where
to look.

It can be deceptive though, I've got to say the first few times we went
I wasn't much impressed at all. Then I was there on day after a big fall
of snow and on a snowboard and I suddenly realised what the fuss was all
about. Like you say, not enough time :-)

Ian Spare wrote:
Marco Cattaneo wrote:

"Steve Haigh" wrote in message
...

I thought I made it pretty clear that this was my opinion hence it's not
a debate, rather it is a matter of fact that I prefer the skiing in
Flaine to the 3V. I prefer staying in the Grand Massif to staying in the
3V. It is easier to get to (for me at least, flying from the UK). It has
fewer crowds.



[...]

Unfortunately the Compagnie des Alpes, that has recently bought Flaine,
seems to have woken up to the fact the accomodation available in
Flaine is
not sufficient to saturate the lift system. They have just got
approval for
5000 extra beds. There is a similar number planned in Samoens now that
they
have direct access to the ski area with the Grand Massif Express, and
there
is talk of building a lift out of Sixt as well.

It won't change the quality of the ski area - by far the best within an
hour's drive of Geneva - but it will surely increase the crowds, at
least in
the peak seasons.



And they'll be the new lift from Magland as well. They're going to need
to look at some of the old lifts and flow around a couple of lifts/runs
as well. The return from Tetes des Saix is a disaster toward
Morillon/Samoens/Les Carroz and the queue on the Les Moillets can be a
real pain, 20 mins on one afternoon over Xmass, not a lot by some
standards but still a pain. The linking round Morillon and Les Carroz
just isn't right either, there's at least one lift missing and maybe two.

Ian

Out of interest does anyone know when these lifts will be built? The
lift out of Sixt looks like a fairly obvious addition. The return from
the Tetes des Saix does need to be improved - it was carnage at New Year
too. Another obvious addition (obvious to me at least) would be an
improved lift from the top of the new gondola (just below Samoens 1600)
up to the Tetes.

Ace wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:12:12 +0000, pete devlin
wrote:


In message , Steve Haigh
writes

. Flaine/ Grand Massif

Oh pullleeeaassse!! Don't get me wrong, I love Flaine, it is a great ski
area. It has more motorways as a percentage than the 3V IMHO and a lot
less off piste.


No way man. You've obviously not spent enought time there :-) There's
really not much 'motorway' stuff when compared with Courchevel
particularly, and _much_ more really good off-piste if you know where
to look.
It's not just a case of knowing where to look, you can see a lot in the
main Flaine bowl. It's more a case of knowing where not to ski... those
holes look very, very scary.


It does get less tracked out, it has to be said, but it
is not even in the same league.


OK, I've skiied there a lot more than anywhere else (as Ski Club rep
for 2-3 weeks in each of the last 4 seasons, plus a bit more) so I
probably know the off-piste better than many, but I rate it as one of
the top 5 off-piste areas I've ever been to.
It does look fantastic, I've only spent a week there so far but I'm
going back next week for more. Hopefully the Gers bowl will be open this
time, that looks like a very nice bit of skiing. From my limited
knowledge I'd agree it was a top-5 contender, certainly in Europe if not
worldwide.

In message , Ace
writes
No way man. You've obviously not spent enought time there :-) There's
really not much 'motorway' stuff when compared with Courchevel
particularly, and _much_ more really good off-piste if you know where
to look.

I have spent 10 weeks over 5 years in Flaine and 4 weeks over 3 years in
the 3V. I _did_ go with 2 guides in Flaine. In the 3V I used an off
piste book as a guide. I strongly disagree.


http://compaqnet.ifrance.com/acenet/flaine1_s.jpg (and 2 & 3 - bigger
files available without the _s) shows us on some of the more
challenging stuff :-)

Taken from one of the chairlifts over the Samoens side IIRC.

It does get less tracked out, it has to be said, but it
is not even in the same league.

OK, I've skiied there a lot more than anywhere else (as Ski Club rep
for 2-3 weeks in each of the last 4 seasons, plus a bit more) so I
probably know the off-piste better than many, but I rate it as one of
the top 5 off-piste areas I've ever been to.

I haven't skiied anywhere more than Flaine. I would still rather go to
val or the 3V. Going nowhere, we'll all just have to disagree. As it was
pointed out, it's very subjective. Factors such as snow conditions ,
weather, company and time of year all influence us.

--
Pete Devlin (To email - press reply, remove Garbage Sifter)
[{//////news03//////at\\\\\secondrow/////co\\\\\uk}]
Lossiemouth RUFC http://www.lossiemouth-rufc.co.uk
Condoms should be used on every conceivable occasion.

Steve Haigh wrote:
Out of interest does anyone know when these lifts will be built? The
lift out of Sixt looks like a fairly obvious addition. The return from
the Tetes des Saix does need to be improved - it was carnage at New Year

We were around the area for a few weeks over Xmass/New Year, it was
about at the worst for New Year. I don't fully understand it, it's a
perfectly easy slope and people seem to have nightmares on it.

too. Another obvious addition (obvious to me at least) would be an
improved lift from the top of the new gondola (just below Samoens 1600)
up to the Tetes.

:-) Yes I thought that as well, the links from Samoens have always been
dreadful though, it's going to take sometime to get them to a reasonable
standard.

pete devlin wrote:

Taken from one of the chairlifts over the Samoens side IIRC.


From the ridge near the Grand Vans I'd say. The lines off that ridge
are a bit of a muchness really, which turns out not to be a problem as
they're all good :-)

Ian

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:03:54 +0100, Ian Spare
wrote:

pete devlin wrote:

Taken from one of the chairlifts over the Samoens side IIRC.


From the ridge near the Grand Vans I'd say.

*ding*

The lines off that ridge
are a bit of a muchness really, which turns out not to be a problem as
they're all good :-)

Heh. This one lead onto a pristine powder field of about 300m
vertical, with the top section 45%, before tracking down through the
tree-line(s) and ending up above the vernant chair. Nice, it was :-)

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

Steve Haigh wrote:
Mike_Chapman wrote:


I hadn't expected to stir up such an argument. I realise that we all
have a choice of where to ski. However, Sony aren't allowed to fix
retail prices for a particular model of DVD Player, so I am a little
surprised that the price of 3 Vallees lift passes seems to be so
similar (identical) from all retailers.


I don't see why or how the price could be different. There is one lift
company (well, several companies but one group for the whole 3V) and
they charge a price. If a hotel or tour operator sold the pass on to
thier clients they could charge less but then they'd make a loss, they
could charge more but the client's would soon cotton on and buy direct.
If you set up a discount lift ticket company where would you buy your
tickets? You have to buy from the lift company. You could get some sort
of commission, as the TOs get, but then if you pass that saving on to
your customers you aren't going to make any money.

As for Sony, it's a good point but I don't think the economic model for
lift passes has much in common with consumer goods. The real competition
is between different resorts and this is what keeps the prices down. I'm
not saying they are cheap, but the alternatives are not very attractive
- any one for touring skis?

I agree entirley with the above comments. What the lift company is
selling is the right to use their lifts, not pieces of plastic bearing
your photograph.

One thing that confused me about skiing in Canada was that you could buy
cheeper list passes from other places than the lift company office (who
appeared shocked in Banff when I walked in to buy a lift pass) even
miles down the valley. But then there was little or no discount for
buying one 10 day passes as opposed to 10 1 day passes.