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warm gloves: opinions on Swany sx-15 x-over glove?



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 7th 04, 05:26 PM
lal_truckee
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Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

Anyway, the salesguy made several claims that I'd like to have
confirmed/denied/discussed:

1) He claimed that leather gloves are warmer than other materials due to being
less porous than fabrics, which are woven.


Wrong

2) He claimed that, from year to year, either Marmot or Swany will have the
warmest glove on the market.


Wrong

3) He claimed that, in extremely high-quality handwear, a mitten won't be any
warmer than a glove (this is the one I really wonder about)


Wrong

4) He claimed that this particular glove had been tested and found to be the
warmest (objectively, via temperature) of all the gloves tested


Immaterial

5) He claimed that the fleece liner will wick away my sweat and keep my hands
from being wet.


Possible

6) He said that his gf, who also has poor circulation and constant hands of
ice, wears these and is happy with them. (I'm not asking you guys to confirm
this, but do you think this is a) true or b) a tactic to get me to buy a
rather pricey pair of gloves?)


A guy with such a track record of bull**** is unlikely to even HAVE a
girl friend, IMO.


Finally, I'm wondering if buying gloves is the answer at all, or if I need to
keep my body warmer somehow so that it doesn't say "sayonara!" to my
extremities. Thing is, if I dress any warmer than I do, I'll be sweating when
I ski or am standing in line, and even with wicking fabrics throughout, that
causes enough wetness to make me cold again. Especially as sports bras don't
do a great job of wicking, anyway.


Cold extremities make you cold, warm extremities make you warm. Keep
your hands and head warm and the rest follows. Make sure you have a
good, warm, windproof knit hat - go for those three adjectives before
considering "style."

Ads
  #12  
Old December 7th 04, 06:32 PM
VtSkier
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Hey LAL
I'm thinking of driving up from South Lake either Friday or Sunday to
Alpine Meadows unless, of course, you think another area might be better.

If there is a slim chance that we might hook up, we can email off group
and set something up.

VtSkier AKA RW

  #13  
Old December 7th 04, 07:07 PM
Monique Y. Mudama
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On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

Anyway, the salesguy made several claims that I'd like to have
confirmed/denied/discussed:

1) He claimed that leather gloves are warmer than other materials due
to being less porous than fabrics, which are woven.


Wrong


Wrong as in, leather isn't the warmest, or wrong as in, his explanation
doesn't make sense? If the former, what *is* the warmest?

2) He claimed that, from year to year, either Marmot or Swany will
have the warmest glove on the market.


Wrong


Who does, or is the brand immaterial, in which case, how do you decide?

3) He claimed that, in extremely high-quality handwear, a mitten
won't be any warmer than a glove (this is the one I really wonder
about)


Wrong

4) He claimed that this particular glove had been tested and found to
be the warmest (objectively, via temperature) of all the gloves
tested


Immaterial


Why is the internal temp of the glove immaterial to the question of keeping my
hand warm?

5) He claimed that the fleece liner will wick away my sweat and keep
my hands from being wet.


Possible


Okay, then, what *will* keep my hands from being wet? Every glove I've ever
had has been soggy after an hour or two, and it's *not* because my hands are
too warm!

Or is it possible to have a glove where wetness doesn't result in cold? Are
the two not necessarily related?

6) He said that his gf, who also has poor circulation and constant
hands of ice, wears these and is happy with them. (I'm not asking
you guys to confirm this, but do you think this is a) true or b) a
tactic to get me to buy a rather pricey pair of gloves?)


A guy with such a track record of bull**** is unlikely to even HAVE a
girl friend, IMO.


Oh, I dunno, a lot of girls fall for BS ... there's also the question of
intentional BS vs. just being wrong. Or, to play devil's advocate, just
disagreeing with someone else =P

The main reason I question his glove recommendations is because he didn't seem
to be the type to have circulation issues.

Finally, I'm wondering if buying gloves is the answer at all, or if I
need to keep my body warmer somehow so that it doesn't say
"sayonara!" to my extremities. Thing is, if I dress any warmer than
I do, I'll be sweating when I ski or am standing in line, and even
with wicking fabrics throughout, that causes enough wetness to make
me cold again. Especially as sports bras don't do a great job of
wicking, anyway.


Cold extremities make you cold, warm extremities make you warm. Keep
your hands and head warm and the rest follows. Make sure you have a
good, warm, windproof knit hat - go for those three adjectives before
considering "style."


I have a helmet, so a hat isn't an option. The helmet is pretty warm, though.

My body and head are not typically cold -- it's just my fingers and toes.

--
monique

  #14  
Old December 7th 04, 08:24 PM
uglymoney
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:07:42 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama"
wrote:

On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

Anyway, the salesguy made several claims that I'd like to have
confirmed/denied/discussed:

1) He claimed that leather gloves are warmer than other materials due
to being less porous than fabrics, which are woven.


Wrong


I wonder if this guy wears a leather coat on the slopes as well.


Wrong as in, leather isn't the warmest, or wrong as in, his explanation
doesn't make sense? If the former, what *is* the warmest?

2) He claimed that, from year to year, either Marmot or Swany will
have the warmest glove on the market.


Wrong


Who does, or is the brand immaterial, in which case, how do you decide?


Leather absorbs water and gets wet. Its a bad material for gloves,
especially if you have sweaty hands. It might be usefull for racers
who need the padding, or for people who use their gloves to do more
than hang on to poles with.


3) He claimed that, in extremely high-quality handwear, a mitten
won't be any warmer than a glove (this is the one I really wonder
about)


Wrong


Yep. A glove has far more surface area to help cool your hand than a
mitt. No matter how warm you make a glove, an equivalent mitt will
be far warmer.


4) He claimed that this particular glove had been tested and found to
be the warmest (objectively, via temperature) of all the gloves
tested


Immaterial


Why is the internal temp of the glove immaterial to the question of keeping my
hand warm?


Mittens are warmer. I've always skied with them on cold days because
I have cold hands, and have never found any glove that was as warm as
a good pair of mittens. You compromise the use of your digits while
in the gloves, but while skiing, you don't need them. When you do
need them, extract warm fingers from mitt, and they are workable, not
frozen stiff.


5) He claimed that the fleece liner will wick away my sweat and keep
my hands from being wet.


Possible


Okay, then, what *will* keep my hands from being wet? Every glove I've ever
had has been soggy after an hour or two, and it's *not* because my hands are
too warm!


One thing that I do on extremely cold days is to wear polypropolyne
liners on my hands. Extremely thin gloves that wick all the water
from your fingers. They are also very nice when you remove your hand
from you mittens - keeps some of the heat in.

Sort of like layering for the hands.


Or is it possible to have a glove where wetness doesn't result in cold? Are
the two not necessarily related?

6) He said that his gf, who also has poor circulation and constant
hands of ice, wears these and is happy with them. (I'm not asking
you guys to confirm this, but do you think this is a) true or b) a
tactic to get me to buy a rather pricey pair of gloves?)


A guy with such a track record of bull**** is unlikely to even HAVE a
girl friend, IMO.


I agree. This guy was feeding nothing but a line of BS to sell you
these gloves.


I have a helmet, so a hat isn't an option. The helmet is pretty warm, though.

My body and head are not typically cold -- it's just my fingers and toes.


I have the same problem, but my hands don't sweat unless I am hot, so
I don't have that problem with soaked gloves. Perhaps you have
hyperhidrosis? Maybe try using some anti-perspirant on your hands
before a ski day and see if that does not cut down a bit on the
sweating/resulting cold.

A lot of people with cold hands say they have Raynaud's disease. A
physician who claimed to have it and who I waterskied with a bit last
summer (and in the cold, cold spring weather) told me that they have a
drug that works to relieve the blood restriction caused by this
disorder. Oddly, this physician (a shapely female of around 30 years)
had a thing for losing layers while skiing. She loves to ski naked.
Go figure.

On cold days I use some gloves from granite gear, reasonable, and warm
as hell. I've never had cold hands with these gloves.
http://www.granitegear.com/products/...ts/index.shtml
Other posters have their fav's.

Also avoid caffeine if you can. I can't.

nate

  #15  
Old December 7th 04, 08:41 PM
Dave M
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uglymoney wrote:

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:07:42 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama"
wrote:



On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned:


snip


My body and head are not typically cold -- it's just my fingers and toes.



I have the same problem, but my hands don't sweat unless I am hot, so
I don't have that problem with soaked gloves. Perhaps you have
hyperhidrosis? Maybe try using some anti-perspirant on your hands
before a ski day and see if that does not cut down a bit on the
sweating/resulting cold.

A lot of people with cold hands say they have Raynaud's disease. A
physician who claimed to have it and who I waterskied with a bit last
summer (and in the cold, cold spring weather) told me that they have a
drug that works to relieve the blood restriction caused by this
disorder.


If it is that, simple asprin will help (or so claims the M.D. wife who
also claims to suffer from Raynaud's) as will a shot of Irish Whiskey,
your choice.

Dave M.


Oddly, this physician (a shapely female of around 30 years)
had a thing for losing layers while skiing. She loves to ski naked.
Go figure.

On cold days I use some gloves from granite gear, reasonable, and warm
as hell. I've never had cold hands with these gloves.
http://www.granitegear.com/products/...ts/index.shtml
Other posters have their fav's.

Also avoid caffeine if you can. I can't.

nate




  #16  
Old December 7th 04, 08:52 PM
VtSkier
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Default

Dave M wrote:
uglymoney wrote:

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:07:42 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama"
wrote:



On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned:


snip


My body and head are not typically cold -- it's just my fingers and
toes.



I have the same problem, but my hands don't sweat unless I am hot, so
I don't have that problem with soaked gloves. Perhaps you have
hyperhidrosis? Maybe try using some anti-perspirant on your hands
before a ski day and see if that does not cut down a bit on the
sweating/resulting cold.

A lot of people with cold hands say they have Raynaud's disease. A
physician who claimed to have it and who I waterskied with a bit last
summer (and in the cold, cold spring weather) told me that they have a
drug that works to relieve the blood restriction caused by this
disorder.



If it is that, simple asprin will help (or so claims the M.D. wife who
also claims to suffer from Raynaud's) as will a shot of Irish Whiskey,
your choice.


Wouldn't a shot of good single malt Scotch do just as well?

Dave M.


Oddly, this physician (a shapely female of around 30 years)
had a thing for losing layers while skiing. She loves to ski naked.
Go figure.

On cold days I use some gloves from granite gear, reasonable, and warm
as hell. I've never had cold hands with these gloves.
http://www.granitegear.com/products/...ts/index.shtml

Other posters have their fav's.

Also avoid caffeine if you can. I can't.


Neither can I.

nate


I'm a firm advocate of keeping your body core warm and you'll have warm
hands. I have a pair of mid-weight BD skiing specific gloves, a pair of
leather racing gloves and a pair of Extra Large thinsulate, leather and
fabric, workman's gloves from the local hardware worn with a pair of
fleece liners. The latter are the warmest and have the advantage of
being able to keep the liners on when you remove the "shells". The
latter are also NOT waterproof as the leather are pretty good and the
BD's are goretex. Weather determines the gloves I wear.

VtSkier

  #17  
Old December 7th 04, 08:57 PM
lal_truckee
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Default

Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned:

Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

Anyway, the salesguy made several claims that I'd like to have
confirmed/denied/discussed:

1) He claimed that leather gloves are warmer than other materials due
to being less porous than fabrics, which are woven.


Wrong



Wrong as in, leather isn't the warmest, or wrong as in, his explanation
doesn't make sense? If the former, what *is* the warmest?


Leather IS porous, and breaths, so you have to wax it to waterproof it,
regularly - a forgotten art - noone maintains gear anymore - they
replace it. Warmth is based on design - many materials can be used
equally well. So there's no "leather is best" or "cordura is best"
answer. Study the design, look for layers, look for how the system is
waterproofed, etc. Hands are wet from the outside (melting snow) and
from the inside (sweat.) Being wet doesn't necessarily imply cold - that
depends on the layering and wind protextion of the system. If you sweat
alot you can try porous layers like goretex, but IMO they're not going
to keep up with sweating.
(BTW, I use leather gloves [with some ducttape] exclusively - as much
because I'm a traditionalist as anything.)



2) He claimed that, from year to year, either Marmot or Swany will
have the warmest glove on the market.


Wrong



Who does, or is the brand immaterial, in which case, how do you decide?


Brand is immaterial, construction and design is paramount. Study the layers.



3) He claimed that, in extremely high-quality handwear, a mitten
won't be any warmer than a glove (this is the one I really wonder
about)


Wrong


What, no followup questions?



4) He claimed that this particular glove had been tested and found to
be the warmest (objectively, via temperature) of all the gloves
tested


Immaterial



Why is the internal temp of the glove immaterial to the question of keeping my
hand warm?


Immaterial because you don't know the test conditions nor the subject
gloves - could be two pairs in summer. This kind of statement is
gobbledy-gook for the unwary.



5) He claimed that the fleece liner will wick away my sweat and keep
my hands from being wet.


Possible



Okay, then, what *will* keep my hands from being wet? Every glove I've ever
had has been soggy after an hour or two, and it's *not* because my hands are
too warm!


The glove may leak, or you may sweat. Few ski gloves will resist being
submerged in water - IMO all will leak water (even goretex/barrior
gloves, since the membrane will eventually tear under the kind of use a
glove is subjected to.) So keeping water off the gloves is important -
and if they lose heat too easily the heat melts the snow and you've got
water on, and therefore in the gloves; so you're back to studying the
layers and warmth and windresistence.


Or is it possible to have a glove where wetness doesn't result in cold? Are
the two not necessarily related?


Absolutely - in fact you put a hypothermic person in warm water to warm
them up. It depends on the glove layers - you want layers that don't
transfer heat wet or dry, and your hand heat will warm any water.

Maybe you need multiple gloves? Change off at midday? Don't forget
different weather gloves - sunny/blizzard/windy/spring all call for
different characteristics. I have four pair in my locker bag, and travel
with even more.



6) He said that his gf, who also has poor circulation and constant
hands of ice, wears these and is happy with them. (I'm not asking
you guys to confirm this, but do you think this is a) true or b) a
tactic to get me to buy a rather pricey pair of gloves?)


A guy with such a track record of bull**** is unlikely to even HAVE a
girl friend, IMO.



Oh, I dunno, a lot of girls fall for BS ... there's also the question of
intentional BS vs. just being wrong. Or, to play devil's advocate, just
disagreeing with someone else =P


BS works even better than dandy candy or quicker liqour, IMExperience.


The main reason I question his glove recommendations is because he didn't seem
to be the type to have circulation issues.


Recommendations are like any other info source - it's as important to
know the why as the what. Why does he say what he says? I'd trust hiim
more if he said "these are the qualities of the gloves we carry; if you
are really cold, you might want to look at these other lines on the web
or a competitor store."



Finally, I'm wondering if buying gloves is the answer at all, or if I
need to keep my body warmer somehow so that it doesn't say
"sayonara!" to my extremities. Thing is, if I dress any warmer than
I do, I'll be sweating when I ski or am standing in line, and even
with wicking fabrics throughout, that causes enough wetness to make
me cold again. Especially as sports bras don't do a great job of
wicking, anyway.


Cold extremities make you cold, warm extremities make you warm. Keep
your hands and head warm and the rest follows. Make sure you have a
good, warm, windproof knit hat - go for those three adjectives before
considering "style."



I have a helmet, so a hat isn't an option. The helmet is pretty warm, though.


My helmet is very warm. What do you mean by "pretty warm?" You shouldn't
lose heat through your head - it'll make your fingers and toes cold.
Really! Has to do with circulation changes.


My body and head are not typically cold -- it's just my fingers and toes.


As a final resort you could try boot heaters - not too expensive, and
some folks swear by them.

  #18  
Old December 7th 04, 08:59 PM
MattB
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Posts: n/a
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uglymoney wrote:
On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:07:42 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama"
wrote:


snip

A lot of people with cold hands say they have Raynaud's disease. A
physician who claimed to have it and who I waterskied with a bit last
summer (and in the cold, cold spring weather) told me that they have a
drug that works to relieve the blood restriction caused by this
disorder. Oddly, this physician (a shapely female of around 30 years)
had a thing for losing layers while skiing. She loves to ski naked.
Go figure.


I don't believe it. Got any photographic proof?


On cold days I use some gloves from granite gear, reasonable, and warm
as hell. I've never had cold hands with these gloves.
http://www.granitegear.com/products/...ts/index.shtml
Other posters have their fav's.


I have some Granite Gear gloves (not sure what model - these ones:
http://mattb.net/images/Monarch%2004...20on%20top.jpg) that
I've been wearing for a few years and they seem to be great in terms of
keeping me warm and dry. My hands usually don't sweat much, but they do
get cold. I usually pull my fingers out and make fists to warm them up
on the lift if they do and that enough on all but the coldest days.

Also avoid caffeine if you can. I can't.

nate


Matt

PS Hi Monique!

  #19  
Old December 7th 04, 09:02 PM
MattB
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Posts: n/a
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AstroPax wrote:
On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:22:41 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama"
wrote:


Um, my sports bras aren't cotton. They're a synth material, although the
label's been washed too many times to read clearly.



Just out of curiosity, theoretically, if you could actually read those
un-readable and faded labels, what would the size be?

-Astro


For some reason the image of that old Lange "Keep your tips up!" poster
just popped into my mind. Just thought I'd share that image if you
remember it.

Matt

  #20  
Old December 7th 04, 09:03 PM
lal_truckee
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VtSkier wrote:
Hey LAL
I'm thinking of driving up from South Lake either Friday or Sunday to
Alpine Meadows unless, of course, you think another area might be better.

If there is a slim chance that we might hook up, we can email off group
and set something up.


I'm takng care of busines in San Francisco currently - don't know if
I'll be finished by Friday or even Sunday. But it's a good idea - I'll
try and get back to you.

 




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