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#1
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Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs
A couple of weeks ago, I started a thread here, "Snowboarding or skiing?",
that generated much discussion and many helpful contributions from group members. To recap, I'm 42, my son is 14, and neither of us had ever snowboarded before. We decided to give the sport a shot at the Seven Springs resort near us in Pennsylvania. I thought the group might be interested in learning how our first day went. Those with a low tolerance for tedium may wish to stop reading now. What went right: *After reading about how to dress for the slopes, we bought long underwear, fleece, goggles, snowboarding gloves, etc. We were quite warm today. *Our rental boots & boards used step-in bindings, which turned out to be invaluable -- not just for getting into the bindings, but also for getting out of them. I often found that the only way to get from one place to another on the hill was to pick up the board and walk. *The snow-covered trees in the mountains southeast of Pittsburgh were very pretty. What went wrong: Just about everything else. Actually, our first day of snowboarding was supposed to have been last Sunday, but my son got sick and we had to postpone the trip for a week. Too bad, because last week was consistently cold, and I think the snow was in better shape (though mostly machine-made). This week was very cold up until yesterday, when the temperature suddenly rose, and it rained for a while. Then it turned colder again. The result was a wetter, icier environment. The day got off to a comic start this morning as I was viewing the Seven Springs snow report on my notebook computer. I walked across the room to show it to my wife, then returned to my seat, still staring at the screen. Unfortunately, the screen was not transparent, so I did not see the footrest sticking out from the couch, which I tripped over magnificently. I banged and scraped my foot, shin and knee, though the computer happily survived. This turned out to be my worst fall of the day, though I'm not sure I can legitimately claim it as snowboard-related. At the beginning of the drive to Seven Springs, we were descending a steep hill in our area that turned out to be ice-covered and unsalted. The car spun around several times before ending up in a grassy field on the side of the road. Luckily, we didn't hit anything, so we were able to pull back onto the road, gingerly crawl down the rest of the hill, and resume the trip. But the near-accident turned out to be a bad omen. Seven Springs has a beginner package for $65 that includes boots and board rental, a 90-minute group lesson, and a limited access lift ticket. (The package is cheaper for skiers, because the ski rental costs less. Why is that?) We purchased two of these packages for a total of $130. We never even got near a lift today, so I guess we lost money on that part of the deal. I had thought that equipment selection and use would be part of the lesson, but it wasn't. A guy just handed us boots after learning our shoe sizes. There was no effort to ensure a truly good fit, or to explain how all the various fasteners worked. I had to keep going back to the rental desk to ask questions. After we got one of my son's boots on and fastened, I noticed that the other one was missing a strap, so we had to start again with a new pair. My own boots were size 11. I suppose that they fit me adequately after a lot of tugging on the laces, but I think that the model was probably too wide to start with. My heels felt a bit loose, and there was a certain Frankenstein's monster quality to my stomping. After all the boots were tied, I happened to look down at my hand and notice that the skin was shredded on two fingers from all the lace pulling. The rental clerk responded vacantly when I asked where first aid was, so I just wandered around until I thought of trying the childcare area. Sure enough, the supervisor there had a whole box of first aid supplies, so I was able to find a couple of bandages for my fingers. My son and I were given the same model of snowboard (Rossignol), though his was a little longer than mine. That struck me as odd, since we are within ..25" to .5" in height (he is tall for a 14-year-old -- about six feet), but I outweigh him by 40-50 pounds. When we finally got out on the slope, I discovered that the binding for my front (left) foot was almost perpendicular to the major axis of the board, which turned out to be inconvenient for me. There was so much angle to the foot placement that it hurt to twist my left knee when I had to scoot with the left foot on the board and the right foot pushing. Also, I keep my balance much better when I can turn my left foot more toward to the direction in which I'm heading. It felt awkward to have it pointing to the side. Our instructor said it was possible to rotate the binding on the board, but I tried it on the hill and it didn't budge. The group lesson itself turned out to be of little use. There were about five groups of eight for the 2:00 p.m. snowboarding beginners' lesson, and probably as many for the skiing lesson, so if you pictured the slope as very crowded, you'd be right. I was the only adult in our group of eight. The instructor went through a series of lessons in a set order, and from my perspective it didn't seem to make much difference whether the students mastered a step or not before the next came along. Stand on the board | Push the board | Slide with both feet on the board, but only one in the bindings | Toeside turn | Heelside turn | Try both feet in the bindings | Now try linking turns. I wasn't close to being able to turn effectively -- in fact, I really couldn't get the board on edge at all -- when we were supposed to try linking turns. I'd say that of the eight people in the group, perhaps two (both little kids -- this seems to be a relatively bad sport for taller folks to learn) could do a half-decent single turn. Everyone else would slide down the hill a bit, make some kind of effort, perhaps turn a little, then flop over in a heap. This was about one hour into the lesson. At this point my son, who was very far from enjoying himself, and I just left. An even bigger problem, from my perspective, was that the slope was so crowded. Boarders and skiers were everywhere, moving in every direction, or sometimes just sitting or lying on the snow. It's fine for a skilled instructor to maneuver among the crowds, but I don't think it's right to ask someone like me to learn in such conditions. Child beginners tend to be heedless of where they'll end up when they start moving. However, as an adult, I have the responsibility to think about where I'm heading. Also, though I'm not a huge person, I'm an adult male and can do some damage to anyone I collide with. I know that once my board starts moving, I can't stop and I can't turn. When the slope is crawling with people, where am I supposed to go? I can't just say, "Anyone in my path be damned!" As a result, most of my trips were very short. Once I picked up a little speed, I seemed to have no choice but to take a dive in order to stop before I became a missile. By the way, is it possible for a snowboard to be too fast, at least for a beginner? A little more friction would have been welcome. I didn't like the foot-on-a-banana-peel sensation of zipping away with no control. Since the sport has no "crutch" -- the hand on the wall for the novice skater, training wheels or a parent's grip for a new bicyclist, poles for the beginning skier -- there doesn't seem to be a way to master the balancing gradually. On the whole, the experience was like learning to ride a bicycle by going downhill with no brakes, and with dozens of pedestrians and other riders crossing in front of you. When we were seated in the shuttle bus headed back to the parking lot, my son remarked, "Well, that's one thing I never want to do again. That was horrible." Anyway, if we do this again -- and I'm not sure we will, given my son's perspective and my disinclination to go alone -- we'll have to try private lessons and figure out when there'll be some real open space available for learning. I'm not sure what to do about equipment. Today's experience confirms my general view that it's impossible to make progress in anything with one-size-fits-all rental stuff (I didn't start improving as a skater until I got my own, well-fitting skates), but it's very expensive and probably imprudent to buy equipment we may seldom use. I already feel as though today's $130 was flushed away with little to show for it. Sorry for the extreme length of this report. If you're still awake, thanks for reading. Joe Ramirez |
#2
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Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs
"Joe Ramirez" wrote in message
... What went wrong: Just about everything else. Joe, I am really sorry to hear that. I am sure many others on the group have, like me, seen friends and family members with a similar experience on their first day, or had a similar experience first hand. When I see this happen I always think if only he/she would persevere a little bit longer they would get it and I am sure others would echo that. Learning to snowboard, for most people, does take a degree of commitment to go through the hard knocks and steep learning curve. We have all been there and can attest to the fact that despite that rather crestfallen feeling after the first few hours that "I'll never be able to do this" you can! Doubtless you saw others snowboarding and it seemed like an impossible leap in ability to go from that beginner slope to cruising effortlessly down the mountain. It is not! So have a rest, take a break and recover but please do not give up. It certainly does not help that things went badly with equipment, instruction and crowds but it does not have to be that way. Consider going to a smaller ski hill to learn where it will be less crowded - you are not going to need extensive trails just yet. Try and rent equipment the afternoon before you need it when everyone else is out on the slope and the staff have time to advise you properly, try a specialist snowboard shop for rentals rather than the general ski/snowboard rental desk at the mountain lodge. Book a private lesson and invest in some protective clothing: padded skating or hockey shorts (snowboard specific ones are very expensive), skate wrist guards and knee pads. You may have to spend a little bit more money but you will not regret it. I suspect that if you really meant never to try snowboarding again you would not have come back to tell us about your experience so take heart from the encouragement you will undoubtedly get here and give it a fresh start. Luke ------------------------- http://www.snowgo.com |
#3
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Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs
"Playdreamer" wrote in message ... Consider going to a smaller ski hill to learn where it will be less crowded - you are not going to need extensive trails just yet. Try and rent equipment the afternoon before you need it when everyone else is out on the slope and the staff have time to advise you properly, try a specialist snowboard shop for rentals rather than the general ski/snowboard rental desk at the mountain lodge. Book a private lesson and invest in some protective clothing: padded skating or hockey shorts (snowboard specific ones are very expensive), skate wrist guards and knee pads. You may have to spend a little bit more money but you will not regret it. There's a ski hill in a nearby public park, Boyce Park, that is supposed to be good for beginners (perhaps because it's too tame for experienced snow sliders). We may try that place if I can persuade my son to give snowboarding another shot. Boyce Park is closer and cheaper than Seven Springs, so we may even be able to go there on weekday nights. If we go, we will definitely get a private lesson if available. Thanks, Joe Ramirez |
#4
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Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs
Are there any dry slopes near you? They are much more difficult to board on
but a lot slower, and with decent lessons (which by the sounds of, you definately didn't have) you'll pick it up in a safe controlled manner. At your standard you should not be travelling forward at all IMHO, as you noted you will soon become a fast moving uncontrolled projectile. You say that you couldn't get an edge at all, but you should be on an edge at all times, flat running at your level (and mine for that matter is lethal). Side slipe on both heal and toes edges untill you are in complete control of speed and the board. Then try falling leaf (side slip going side to side) on both heal and toe edges. Then try the same but turning a little more into the fall line and back to perpendicular to the slope again. Gradually turn more into the slope as you get more confident but still keep on either toe or heal edge, do not try and swap edges. Do this in both directions on both toe and heal edges. Do not progress unless you are in complete control. Once you control the board safely from Heal edge to straight down fall line and back to heal edge stop and the same for toe edge, then and only then try swaping from heal edge start to straight line and toe edge stop. Doe this heal-straight-toestop and toe-straight-healstop until you are completely happy with it and your control, this is the hardest bit to conquer and can take time, but just take things slowly. When mastered, try not coming to a complete stop but carry on traversing accross the slope and put in another turn in the opposite direction, and so on down the slope. Once you are at that stage you are well on the way to becoming a well 'ard boarder dood ;o) Hope that helps, but don't take any of that as gospel as I'm a learner myself. "David Brown )" wrote in message He's gone for boarding (see later thread), but I reckon he'll be skiing after the first week ) "Joe Ramirez" wrote in message O ye of little faith! We shall see. Joe Ramirez Either that or go and get some skis ) -- David Brown ) http://kitemap.co.uk/stack |
#5
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Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs
"David Brown )" wrote in message
... Are there any dry slopes near you? They are much more difficult to board on but a lot slower, and with decent lessons (which by the sounds of, you definately didn't have) you'll pick it up in a safe controlled manner. What are dry slopes? Are they those artificial turf hills with slippery pellets? At your standard you should not be travelling forward at all IMHO, as you noted you will soon become a fast moving uncontrolled projectile. You say that you couldn't get an edge at all, but you should be on an edge at all times, flat running at your level (and mine for that matter is lethal). Yes, that was my problem. The board was flat and I was going much too fast. Side slipe on both heal and toes edges untill you are in complete control of speed and the board. Then try falling leaf (side slip going side to side) on both heal and toe edges. Then try the same but turning a little more into the fall line and back to perpendicular to the slope again. Many people have mentioned this "falling leaf" technique. Is it a standard lesson for beginners? If so, why didn't we use it?! Thanks, Joe Ramirez |
#6
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Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs
"Joe Ramirez" wrote in message
Many people have mentioned this "falling leaf" technique. Is it a standard lesson for beginners? If so, why didn't we use it?! If your instructor didn't even mention falling leaf or garlands, then it looks like your lesson was even worse than I thought. There are various snowboarding tutorials on the net, I've found some before with video, so have a search around and read up before you next go (even if it is for a private lesson). When I get home I'll see if I have any in my favourites. -- kitemap http://ugcc.co.uk |
#7
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Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs
Joe,
Sorry to hear your experience with learning to Snowboard, although not uncommon. I rented twice and never bothered with lessons before I broke down and paid 350$ for a board setup. Your absolutely right about the "kids" running the rental place just handing you the equipment and saying go for it. This is also true with lessons from what I have heard. Other than what has been said before, like renting from a small shop the day before, I would suggest taking a person that knows how to board. Ask a friend (adult) or the kid next door to go with you for the day. Hell! Save the money you would spend on lessons and buy a lift ticket for helping you. They can walk you through the boot and board selection much better than the people there will. Also they should bring along a Philips screwdriver so you don't have issue with binding angles. (Note: an ok place to start with bindings angles is about 20 in front and -6 in the back, if you want to try duck stance [usually a good place to start]) It confuses me that you didn't get on a lift. Learning to snowboard is all about having enough slope. If you stay on things which are too flat you will not be able to carve. After boarding for two years it is still difficult to board without speed. It is like a bike, the faster you go the easier it is to balance or in this case turn, up to a point. Don't worry, every boarder bails of the lift the first time, I did it and everyone I have taught has done it. I understand that you don't want to hit people as a human projectile. I have this issue as well being 6'5" and 200 lbs. So less crowed day would help, not to mention non-icy conditions. The snow conditions also have a huge impact on learning. Don't learn on ice or deep powder, neither will be much fun. The best I think to learn on is machine packed powder that fell within the last 3 or 4 days, so its not too too hard. Other than that there are only two keys to snowboarding. One: Weight on your front foot. Two: bend your knees. (whenever I take a good spill, I am usually getting lazy on one or both of these points.) You will be surprised how fast the learning curve is for snowboarding. I spent 2 days falling down and after that it just starts to click. You can become a pretty good boarding in 2 or 3 seasons compared to skiing which I have been told takes much longer. Definitely try it again, and I suggest taking a boarder with you who will stay the whole day with you and help you with equipment teach you how to board. This was evident when I learned, it took 2 days since my friends were there but not really helping, however late last season I tough someone who had never been on a board to link turns in 5 hours, not well but well enough to hit hard blue runs. That's just my opinion. ED |
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Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs
The best thing to do is to take another lesson at a smaller friendly
hill. The big mountains are machines that have to serve thousands of customers the cheapest way possible. Take another lesson, but only with you and your son, when there are 4 people in the group it is hard to get the personal attention. This costs more but if the other 2 people in the group do not pick up fast you will be stuck learning at there level. Get the equipent in the morning, practice getting your balance then try some side slipping, heel then toe side. Now you are warmed up go to your lesson. Some tips are to wear knee pads and elbow pads, helmet and bike shorts with padding. When you catch an edge and land on the knee pads you will be smiling. Hope this helps. Some people can pick it up fast while other it takes a little longer. Good luck and do not give up on the sport! |
#9
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Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs
"Snowboardripper" wrote in message
om... The best thing to do is to take another lesson at a smaller friendly hill. The big mountains are machines that have to serve thousands of customers the cheapest way possible. So I've noticed. I went to a large resort because I thought it would have the best instructors around. The assembly line aspect of the place did not occur to me. Take another lesson, but only with you and your son, when there are 4 people in the group it is hard to get the personal attention. This costs more but if the other 2 people in the group do not pick up fast you will be stuck learning at there level. Or, if we don't pick it up fast, they could be stuck learning at our level! g Get the equipent in the morning, practice getting your balance then try some side slipping, heel then toe side. Now you are warmed up go to your lesson. Some tips are to wear knee pads and elbow pads, helmet and bike shorts with padding. When you catch an edge and land on the knee pads you will be smiling. Thanks for the tips, Joe Ramirez |
#10
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Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs
"Edward Arata" wrote:
I would suggest taking a person that knows how to board. Ask a friend (adult) or the kid next door to go with you for the day. Hell! Save the money you would spend on lessons and buy a lift ticket for helping you. I would disagree on that. I know a lot person who tried that, and it always ended in "ok, now you turn" - "how?" - "well, I don't know how to explain, just try it. you will know it soon" It is a great difference between knowing snowboarding and knowing how to TEACH snowboarding. It confuses me that you didn't get on a lift. Learning to snowboard is all about having enough slope. If you stay on things which are too flat you will not be able to carve. Lessons we give for beginners usually take 2 days, on the first day you take the lift ONE time in the afternoon. The rest of the day is basic training. Hell, you can take the lift all the day if you want to, but without basics you barely drive down but fall... I understand that you don't want to hit people as a human projectile. I have this issue as well being 6'5" and 200 lbs. So less crowed day would help, not to mention non-icy conditions. The snow conditions also have a huge impact on learning. Don't learn on ice or deep powder, neither will be much fun. The best I think to learn on is machine packed powder that fell within the last 3 or 4 days, so its not too too hard. Other than that there are only two keys to snowboarding. One: Weight on your front foot. Two: bend your knees. (whenever I take a good spill, I am usually getting lazy on one or both of these points.) hmm, there's a lot more on snowboarding than that. rotation is the most important for beginners, among the front foot, ok. a normal turn is set together by a lot of small things, and if you learn them step by step, it is really easy! You will be surprised how fast the learning curve is for snowboarding. I spent 2 days falling down and after that it just starts to click. You can become a pretty good boarding in 2 or 3 seasons compared to skiing which I have been told takes much longer. Well, and I can promise you: if you take a lesson at a good snowboard school, you'll learn it in 1 day! We garuantee our beginners they can drive down a normal hill with curves/turns in one day. We never had to take that promise back. I am honest. We had beginners from 6 years to 60 years, they all made it. Definitely try it again, and I suggest taking a boarder with you who will stay the whole day with you and help you with equipment teach you how to board. Don't do it. Take a lessons and depend on a maximum of 5 persons in your group. Or take a private lesson. Martin |
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