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Helmets!



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 10th 05, 05:38 AM
PG
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"PG" wrote in message
...
|
| "Champ" wrote in message
| ...
|| On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 21:23:40 +0100, "PG"
|| wrote:
|
| And the comfort factor in the slowest of the speed disciplines was the
| main motivator here, very little to do with judgment about the
| precautions to be taken.

typo. race disciplines.


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  #22  
Old January 10th 05, 07:33 AM
Nick Hounsome
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"PG" wrote in message
...

Back on the subject of helmets, my 12 year old watched a shot of Baxter
on Ski Sunday in the slalom, and was disgusted that he wasn't wearing a
helmet - ok it wasn't a speed discipline, but they really can travel...

Pete


Your child needs a dictionary more urgently than a helmet unless he/she was
really "sickened and filled with loathing" in which case he/she urgently
needs a psychiatrist.

Unlike anyone else I don't claim any knowledge about the safety of helmets
but I would rather read sensible discussion than irrelevant ranting.

IMHO what is needed is not helmets but fines for skiing recklessly and
endangering others.


  #23  
Old January 10th 05, 08:46 AM
PG
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"Nick Hounsome" wrote in message
k...
|
| "PG" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Back on the subject of helmets, my 12 year old watched a shot of
Baxter
| on Ski Sunday in the slalom, and was disgusted that he wasn't
wearing a
| helmet - ok it wasn't a speed discipline, but they really can
travel...
|
| Pete
|
| Your child needs a dictionary more urgently than a helmet unless
he/she was
| really "sickened and filled with loathing" in which case he/she
urgently
| needs a psychiatrist.
|
| Unlike anyone else I don't claim any knowledge about the safety of
helmets
| but I would rather read sensible discussion than irrelevant ranting.
|
| IMHO what is needed is not helmets but fines for skiing recklessly and
| endangering others.

Shouldn't rise to this but as a qualified, professional linguist, I
suggest you get a more comprehensive dictionary. Alternative meanings
(OED) include "profound dissatisfaction", "strong indignation", to name
but two.

Evidence, whether anecdotal or not, is part and parcel of debate. Ad
hominem comments like your own are the reason why "sensible discussion"
is rare on unmoderated usenet. Look up sophistry.

As a race club director based in the Alps I speak with some knowledge of
the safety issues involved. IMHO both helmets and fines are needed.

Pete


  #24  
Old January 10th 05, 08:48 AM
Ace
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On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 20:33:28 +0000, Alun Jenkins
wrote:


Where did you see this information? I've had an annual carte neige for
years, and that's the first I've head of such a clause.

Pete

www.skiclublesarcs.com


Hi Pete
all around the cham area are blue cn posters (with the dog !)
The wording reads "without your helment you are not insured"
Mind you my poor french translation could be to blame.


Possibly. Bear in mind that many terms for insurance also mean
protection. But you could be right, for all I know.

Our ESF
instructor also said she had had to cancel some coures as the kids
couldnt get helmets as the hire place had run out.


Ski scholls often have their own rules about this and will insist on
kids having lids, but this is not indicative of either insurance or
legal requirements.

One way or the other
loath em or love em youre going to need lids for the kids ..


Poor kids.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.
  #25  
Old January 10th 05, 08:55 AM
Ace
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On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 06:14:37 +0100, "PG"
wrote:


"Champ" wrote in message
.. .
| On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 21:23:40 +0100, "PG"
| wrote:
|
| Back on the subject of helmets, my 12 year old watched a shot of
Baxter
| on Ski Sunday in the slalom, and was disgusted that he wasn't wearing
a
| helmet - ok it wasn't a speed discipline, but they really can
travel...
|
| She was disgusted? That a grown mad could make his own judgement on
| what precautions to take for his own life? See, this is what happens
| when we insist that kids wear helmets....

She was disgusted with what she saw as the example she felt was being
set, actually. A pretty mature position to hold for a youngster,
certainly beats jumping to conclusions about the motives/thinking of
others as you've just done!


Shows a certain level of brainwashing, i'd say, rather than maturity.
A mature mind would allow that others have the right to think for
themselves, rather than just doing what may be perceived to be
politically correct, which is very much what 'setting an example' is
about. Ski racers have other priorities, far more important to them,
than what sort of an example they set to 12-y-o spectators.

I hope you explained this to her, in order to broaden your mature mind
even further, and hopefully help her be able to make decisions for
herself later in life.

And the comfort factor in the slowest of the [race] disciplines was the
main motivator here, very little to do with judgment about the
precautions to be taken.


I'm sure that any comfort-based decision would be weighed up against
any safety concerns.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.
  #26  
Old January 10th 05, 08:57 AM
Ace
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On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:46:41 -0000, "James Hart"
wrote:

David Mahon wrote:
In article , James Hart
writes
David Mahon wrote:
In article , John
Ricketts writes

Nanny-ism is just going too far. As of January, I can't even change
my own 3-pin plugs at home now!

Can't you? Still see them on sale (together with all the kit you
need to rewire your house if desired).

Not sure what country they live in but the UK has just had Part P
kick into action and the amount of bull**** that's being spread
about it is unbeleivable. Certain electrical jobs around the home
are now subject to restrictions but even the relevant authorities
don't seem to know what's supposed to happen and how they're
supposed to police them. Rewiring a plug is still allowed, replacing a
socket is still
allowed but other stuff like adding an extra socket must be done by
a certified person (for that read "has paid their fees to a
certifying body") or under a Building Control Notice (and with the
requires fees being paid).


Then someone ought to tell the DIY stores (this is link from B&Q)

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/templa...ontent=/bq_adv
ice/common/howtos/fitxtrasockets/


Naughty website, just shows the confusion that's about at the moment though.


It's mainly you that's confused. As I understand it (and as a non-UK
resident) the requirement is that any such work is done to the
certified standards. Nothing's saying the installer must actually be
certified, so there's no reason why a householder can't do any amount
of re-wiring he/she desires, as long as it meets said standards.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.
  #27  
Old January 10th 05, 09:57 AM
PG
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"Ace" wrote in message
news | On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 06:14:37 +0100, "PG"
| wrote:
|
|
| She was disgusted with what she saw as the example she felt was being
| set, actually. A pretty mature position to hold for a youngster,
| certainly beats jumping to conclusions about the motives/thinking of
| others as you've just done!
|
| Shows a certain level of brainwashing, i'd say, rather than maturity.
| A mature mind would allow that others have the right to think for
| themselves, rather than just doing what may be perceived to be
| politically correct, which is very much what 'setting an example' is
| about. Ski racers have other priorities, far more important to them,
| than what sort of an example they set to 12-y-o spectators.

To 12 year old members of the British national ski racing team as it
happens, who are advised and given talks by national trainers on just
this topic.

| I hope you explained this to her, in order to broaden your mature mind
| even further, and hopefully help her be able to make decisions for
| herself later in life.

Fortunately I don't need to explain to her the immaturity of making
patronising assumptions about other people before she meets them, Ace
;-)

|
| And the comfort factor in the slowest of the [race] disciplines was
the
| main motivator here, very little to do with judgment about the
| precautions to be taken.
|
| I'm sure that any comfort-based decision would be weighed up against
| any safety concerns.

Doesn't seem to handicap the majority of elite slalom racers that do
wear a helmet while they carry on winning World Cup events.

Pete


  #28  
Old January 10th 05, 10:02 AM
Ace
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On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 06:17:40 +0100, "PG"
wrote:


"Champ" wrote in message
.. .


| Boy this stuff makes me mad!
|
| One of the most important things about skiing/snowboarding is being
| out in such a fantastic environment, and experiencing it to the full.
| Part of this is being aware of the dangers of the environment, too.
|
| Now, the last thing I want to do is put some glassfibre between me and
| that experience. And, as I know very well from riding and racing
| motorcycles, putting on a helmet will cause some risk-compensation
| behaviour. Far better to teach the kids that skiing is a potentially
| dangerous activity, and act accordingly.
|
| And - I really can't understand how generations of kids used to cycle
| to school without a helmet (me included), but now "we all know it is
| folly to let your child ride a bike without a helmet". I know no such
| thing.


And, as pointed out elsewhere, and regularly discussed on ukrc, the
advantages are far from proven.

Rip out all the safety belts and let's teach everyone to drive more
carefully, shall we? LOL.


Don't be daft. It's all about perspective - there's no real debate
about seatbelts - they decrease injury count and severity with
practically no downside.

Champs' point[1], and one with which I wholly concur, is that
partaking of risky sports activities is a choice, and one where we
should all make positive efforts to understand the inherent dangers
therein. He's not suggesting that you should _not_ wear a helmet, or
that your children shouldn't, just that the blind adherence to the
'helmets must be worn' school of thought detracts from an individual's
right to decide for themselves.

Like Champ, I also ride fast motorcycles (although I don't race them)
and would normally wear full armoured leathers (or equivalent), gloves
and the best helmet I can find. But you know, there are times when
riding in shorts and flip-flops, without a helmet, is perfectly
appropriate. We've both done it, I know, and both accept that when
doing so we'll ride much more slowly and carefully[2], as the result
of a spill would be much more serious. That's what risk-compensation
is about.

One last point of note: I looked at skiing helmets earlier this
season, and was astonished to discover that, like cycling helmets,
they're all really flimsy things, offering a degree of protection only
slightly greater than that of a baseball cap. If I'm ever going to
wear one, I want one that's actually going to be able to take some
impact, as it's only really the extreme situations I'd be trying to
protect against.

If you look at (horse-)riding helmets, by contrast, you'll find their
construction much more robust. Why should horse-riders, who only
travel at 20-odd mph and can fall from about two metres up, have such
better protection, I wonder?

[1] Well, mine actually, but I'm fairly sure it aligns with his
thinking on this subject.
[2] Except when ****ed, of course, but that's another matter
altogether
--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.
  #29  
Old January 10th 05, 10:03 AM
Jason Pereira
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James Hart wrote:
David Mahon wrote:

In article , John
Ricketts writes


Nanny-ism is just going too far. As of January, I can't even change
my own 3-pin plugs at home now!


Can't you? Still see them on sale (together with all the kit you need
to rewire your house if desired).



Not sure what country they live in but the UK has just had Part P kick into
action and the amount of bull**** that's being spread about it is
unbeleivable. Certain electrical jobs around the home are now subject to
restrictions but even the relevant authorities don't seem to know what's
supposed to happen and how they're supposed to police them.
Rewiring a plug is still allowed, replacing a socket is still allowed but
other stuff like adding an extra socket must be done by a certified person
(for that read "has paid their fees to a certifying body") or under a
Building Control Notice (and with the requires fees being paid).

So as long as i say i rewired my house in December 2004 i will be ok.
Spose all the wire colours all change aswell just to prove dates/times
etc!?? now wheres the screwfix catalogue...........
  #30  
Old January 10th 05, 10:10 AM
Ace
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On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:03:48 GMT, "Nick Hounsome"
wrote:



snip nicely-reasoned argument

The key point is that the only group for whom NOT wearing a helmet has an
upside are the skiers themselves.


Quite so. Of course, there are those that refuse to see this, but it's
true nonetheless.

I honestly believe that off piste skiing will be banned in my lifetime since
the statistics relating to fatalities on and off piste are much more clear
cut than any about helmets.


Mebbe, but I'm not so pessimistic. We may see more restrictions, like
they have in a couple of the 'extreme' areas of Kicking Horse (BC,
Canada) where they'll only let you ski if you're properly equipped
with transceiver, shovel, probe etc. Interestingly, even there they
don't insist on helmets. I think this will be the way things will go
over the next few years.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.
 




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