Espace Killy opening weekend

"Ian Spare" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:52:22 +0200, David Off
wrote:


From 2004 the property taxation
regime will change with a 26% tax on capital gains being levied
directly
on the sale of property. Along with Notaires fees and other taxes
this
will make some difference. This will surprise a lot of foreign
property
investors in France. Maybe Ian knows some ways around this like
ownership though an Isle of Mann company?

Channel Islands and the Cayman is my preferred option :-) I presume
they'll be some rollover provision though so that'll be a chink to
slide into to. Failing that anyone selling just before the tax takes
effect is going to be open to offers :-)

But... I remember discovering that a Jersey-owned property in France was
subject to an annual taxation bill calculated on the basis of a
percentage of the property value :-o((

Something I've got to go into in depth over the next few months, as I've
bought a chalet in the Savoie but not sold up in Provence, haven't
worked out whether I should hang on to the property down south and rent
out, or sell up now ..... anyone know a good accountant specialising in
UK expats in France ?!

...............If anyone wants to make me an offer..... see details
at..............

http://wedderburn.alpesprovence.net/pafg99.htm

Pete
www.grasski.org

"David Off" wrote in message
...
PG wrote:

There's plenty of resentment these days, even in the Dordogne where
locals are begining to lose patience with the Brits moving in and
acting
as if they own the place.

They do own the place!*!


Remnants of Empire syndrome. They certainly think they do!


Prices have been rocketing - perhaps the
relaxation of planning regulations in 2004 will help.

Dunno about that, planning regulations depend a lot on how well you
know
the local mayor in my experience. From 2004 the property taxation
regime will change with a 26% tax on capital gains being levied
directly
on the sale of property. Along with Notaires fees and other taxes
this
will make some difference. This will surprise a lot of foreign
property
investors in France. Maybe Ian knows some ways around this like
ownership though an Isle of Mann company?


Ouch, big problem for me possibly, I'd heard that something was coming
along those lines, but hadn't gone into the details. Could even have the
opposite effect in some areas, where there's a shortage of properties
available - people will not sell so readily, or will hike up the price
to cover at least some of the CGT, perhaps? Despite the size of the
country, we're beginning to see UK-style problems in some places, such
as the Savoie and Provence. It's not just the fault of the foreigners
buying up everything, and even if it was, I reckon any extra tax levied
will only serve to increase the cost of purchasing property for locals
who are already priced out of the market....

It is also a pain in the a*se as it will be even harder to move house
to
find work.


True for some, certainly. Nows the time to buy in the French Alps, it
seems. I'm looking for investment partners at the moment!

Overheard in a bar in St Foy the other week, some town hall
officials
and a couple of locals discussing the fate of a large property that
had
just come on the market. ".... Just so long as the English don't get
their hands on it......"

There is another issue, many UK 'mountain' businesses only employ UK
based staff on short term contracts. This way they avoid some local
labour regulations and don't pay French National Insurance rates.
Local
businesses are not happy to say the least.


I've seen that, down south. Got a local Brit - who'd been living here
for 20 years - to do some building work, all legit, when I first
arrived. Within a week the gendarmes turned up in force, checking
everything, position/size of compulsory planning permission sign,
written quote from builder, the works. The local builders had made a
quiet phone call to the flics (despite my using local French
plumbers/electricians etc).

But I blame the French government. They have created a dependency
culture in France where vast sections of the population receive state
aid, from engineering giants Alsthom to the 3 million or so civil
servants to farmers to overgenerous unemployment packages. This has
been in part financed through the EU - as I reported on my Web site
last
year 85% of the budget for snow canons in the Southern French alpes
comes from EU funds - that is the UK tax payer is paying for snow
canons
to be put in to ski stations with dubious economic benefits. Maybe it
is only fair that British people get something in return?


I agree, but it's a dilemma. In France we still have 'genuine' local
communities, with subsidized clubs, activities, associations, and
village shops (anyone in UK remember those?). NHS? The French system
provides much better health care. Yet we're in a world marketplace, and
France appears to be burying its collective head in the sand, as usual,
right or left.

Anyway the whole dependency culture has completely impoverished the
nation (social security budget 11 billion Euros in the red this year),
to the extent where people can't even afford to buy property in the
own
country.


Still, the only way a young Brit can afford to buy in his own country is
by mortgaging himself to the hilt, last thing I heard - far worse than
France.

Pete

PG wrote:

Still, the only way a young Brit can afford to buy in his own country is
by mortgaging himself to the hilt, last thing I heard - far worse than
France.


That is true, there doesn't seem to be a good solution.

I was a bit surprised by the CGT move as it seems to be in the wrong
direction, but the government has to pay for next years tax cut plus
satisfy the EU commission somehow. It had made me think twice about
buying, plus the market in Paris is possibly near the peak now,
certainly if you look at rents properties are overvalued.

As I understood it, one big advantage of using an offshore company to
buy was to avoid French inheritance problems and I think you can avoid
inheritance tax which starts at around 60K, again something UK investors
in the alps want to watch out for. I think the 5% tax is a one off and
levied on purchase, it is the same in Spain. I've not done this so
don't really know and the people I know who have used such vehicles for
buying are quite cagey about telling you details, despite it all being
above board.

Diesel will also be going up. Maybe not a bad thing as I read a report
that said Tignes is one of the most polluted towns in the Rhone-Alpes
region because of all the Tour Operator buses... only they get a 19 cent
per litre subsidy on their diesel. The problem with all these subsidies
is that they are relatively easy for the government to give out and damn
difficult to take away.

"David Off" wrote in message
...
PG wrote:

Still, the only way a young Brit can afford to buy in his own
country is
by mortgaging himself to the hilt, last thing I heard - far worse
than
France.


That is true, there doesn't seem to be a good solution.

I was a bit surprised by the CGT move as it seems to be in the wrong
direction, but the government has to pay for next years tax cut plus
satisfy the EU commission somehow. It had made me think twice about
buying, plus the market in Paris is possibly near the peak now,
certainly if you look at rents properties are overvalued.

As I understood it, one big advantage of using an offshore company to
buy was to avoid French inheritance problems and I think you can avoid
inheritance tax which starts at around 60K, again something UK
investors
in the alps want to watch out for. I think the 5% tax is a one off
and
levied on purchase, it is the same in Spain. I've not done this so
don't really know and the people I know who have used such vehicles
for
buying are quite cagey about telling you details, despite it all being
above board.

/.../

Risky. I haven't kept in touch with recent developments, but the French
authorities used to refuse to recognise the validity of trusts, or trust
companies. In theory the French taxman can levy an annual
percentage-based tax on the value of a property owned by a company based
in a tax haven country, or even where the company is UK registered but
owned by a operation based in the likes of Jersey. A good accountant is
definitely required!

Pete

On 25/09/2003 20:03, in article ,
"PG" wrote:



But... I remember discovering that a Jersey-owned property in France was
subject to an annual taxation bill calculated on the basis of a
percentage of the property value :-o((

Probably so, I've no idea really. I'm more concerned by tax on income to be
honest. We hold properties just as individuals in France and, now,
Switzerland.