Equipment advice for hut-to-hut touring

I am going hut-to-hut skiing for 5 days in the 10th mountain system next
month. I will be carrying a 40-50 pound pack. I am 6'4" and 220 lbs.

My current skis are waxable Karhu XCD GT 215cm 62-54-59 with nnn-bc
bindings and alpina BC boots. but the whole set up is a little beat up
after several years.

1) would Fischer outtabound skis be ok for such a trip or should I stick
with longer, double-cambered skis? Plans include a fair amount of
hilly touring, but only a few steep climbs and descents.

2) given my situation and likely conditions in your area in March, should
I go with waxable or waxless?

3) nnn-bc or 3-pin?

3.1) if nnn-bc, manual or auto?

4) any boot recommendations?

oops! Instead of "your area" I should have said "Colorado". I sent
the message to someone in CO before posting it here...

sorry!

(Ben Bly) wrote in message . com...
I am going hut-to-hut skiing for 5 days in the 10th mountain system next
month. I will be carrying a 40-50 pound pack. I am 6'4" and 220 lbs.

My current skis are waxable Karhu XCD GT 215cm 62-54-59 with nnn-bc
bindings and alpina BC boots. but the whole set up is a little beat up
after several years.

1) would Fischer outtabound skis be ok for such a trip or should I stick
with longer, double-cambered skis? Plans include a fair amount of
hilly touring, but only a few steep climbs and descents.

2) given my situation and likely conditions in your area in March, should
I go with waxable or waxless?

3) nnn-bc or 3-pin?

3.1) if nnn-bc, manual or auto?

4) any boot recommendations?

[ Ben Bly ]

3) nnn-bc or 3-pin?

IMO the main attractions of 3-pin over (NNN/SNS)-BC are somewhat more
stability, and maybe most important a considerably simpler design. I
feel pretty confident that as long as the binding isn't ripped out of
the ski I can cobble together a broken 3-pin with rope etc. to enable
me to get out. Closed bindings aren't as easy to repair in the field.
Icing up of a 3-pin isn't really a problem as there's no closed places
where you cannot hack it off, while the closed bindings may need
thawing if ice gets where it shouldn't.

I use (of course) NNN for XC skiing in the woods where I live (Oslo,
Norway), but I like the simpleness of 3-pin or cable when going deep
into the mountains.


Martin
--
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
-Paul Graham, On Lisp

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In article ,
Ben Bly wrote:
I am going hut-to-hut skiing for 5 days in the 10th mountain system next
month. I will be carrying a 40-50 pound pack. I am 6'4" and 220 lbs.

My current skis are waxable Karhu XCD GT 215cm 62-54-59 with nnn-bc
bindings and alpina BC boots. but the whole set up is a little beat up
after several years.

1) would Fischer outtabound skis be ok for such a trip or should I stick
with longer, double-cambered skis? Plans include a fair amount of
hilly touring, but only a few steep climbs and descents.

_ I'd think the Fischer Boundless Crown would be an ideal ski for
such a trip. It might be too soft for you though. 220 + 40 will
load up any ski. Double cambered skis won't do you much good,
you aren't going to be doing much kick'n'glide with a 40 lb
pack and they will be a lot more difficult to turn on the
way down. The Boundless will be so much more fun after the
XCD GT that you might start looking for more descents. Without
a pack it's a reasonable kick'n' glide ski that is really fun
on the downhills. The XCD GT is a good ski for kick'n' glide,
but doesn't really turn that well...


2) given my situation and likely conditions in your area in March, should
I go with waxable or waxless?

_ I'd go with waxless, since you can always wax them in a pinch
and the Fischer pattern is relatively fast. March is a tricky
month for waxing. Basically, my thinking is that if you can
avoid using klister waxable skis are the way to go, if you'd
be using klister every day waxless is probably better. You'll
likely need skins as well. ( I'd at least bring kicker skins
since they are light and useful. )


3) nnn-bc or 3-pin?

3.1) if nnn-bc, manual or auto?

_ In general I prefer the manual for BC skiing, but I really
wouldn't reccomend NNN/BC for this kind of trip.


4) any boot recommendations?

_ Pick the boots first and then the bindings. There aren't many
NNN/BC boots that I'd want to use with a 40lb pack. For a multi
day trip there are some pretty big advantages to getting a
lightweight plastic boot like the Garmont Libero or the
Scarpa T4. Fit is far more important than the particular brand,
get the one that fits your feet the best. Spend a lot of time
and money on boots, good well fitting boots are the key to
enjoying a long trip. Make sure you break them in well before
the trip. New boots and long trip is a recipe for pain.

_ As far as bindings go, I'd think hard about getting something
that at least has the option of adding a cable. It's been a
while since I skiied Colorado, but I don't remember too many
flat parts and skiing with a big pack requires all the extra
control help you can get. The Voile 3 pin with cable option
is probably a good bet.

_ Booker C. Bense

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(Ben Bly) wrote in message . com...
I am going hut-to-hut skiing for 5 days in the 10th mountain system next
month. I will be carrying a 40-50 pound pack. I am 6'4" and 220 lbs.

My current skis are waxable Karhu XCD GT 215cm 62-54-59 with nnn-bc
bindings and alpina BC boots. but the whole set up is a little beat up
after several years.

1) would Fischer outtabound skis be ok for such a trip or should I stick
with longer, double-cambered skis? Plans include a fair amount of
hilly touring, but only a few steep climbs and descents.

My experience doing 10th Mtn huts over the past 10-15 years is you
only need single camber or camber and a half skis. In Colorado, you
are usually going UP, or DOWN very rarely are you on anything flat
enough to do much kick and glide. I'd say go for the Outtabounds.
I'm personally a TUA kinda gal, but unfortunately, they are out of business.


2) given my situation and likely conditions in your area in March, should
I go with waxable or waxless?

In either case, I recommend skins. I only ski waxable- usually we're skinned
going up to the hut (the description in the book usually tells you when you
should skin up), and on wax coming down. Without the big pack, we usually
can get around just on wax for day trips.


3) nnn-bc or 3-pin?

Cable- I love my G3 targas.

3.1) if nnn-bc, manual or auto?

4) any boot recommendations?

Plastic ;-). I hear good things about the T4 and Garmont Excursions. I have
the original T3's. Warmer, drier, lighter (than beefy leather) and more comfy.

Gear does make a difference, especially if you are out there for a multi day
trip, so try things out and go with what works for you. Have a great trip!

Tracy Lorraine

(Tracy L. Smith) wrote in message

Cable- I love my G3 targas.

Maybe you do, but they're rather overspecified for hut to hut and the
cables restrict heel lift a little: nice downhill but a slight dent in
comfort over the day. I personally use 3 pin, but BC should be fine
as long as you find boots you're happy with.

Plastic ;-). I hear good things about the T4 and Garmont Excursions. I have
the original T3's. Warmer, drier, lighter (than beefy leather) and more comfy.

I use the original T3, *but* that's because I have Scarpa shaped feet
and their leathers aren't available in the UK. The light plastics are
fine for touring (been there, done that, also consider the Crispi
CX-T) but they are still heavier than leathers designed for touring.
I'd go on fit: you don't need anything particularly chunky for hut to
hut, but it does need to fit you for all day comfort. My plastics
measure up, my old leathers didn't, but that's the shape of *my* feet
and the boots available to me.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

(Peter Clinch) wrote in message . com...
(Tracy L. Smith) wrote in message

Cable- I love my G3 targas.

Maybe you do, but they're rather overspecified for hut to hut and the
cables restrict heel lift a little: nice downhill but a slight dent in
comfort over the day. I personally use 3 pin, but BC should be fine
as long as you find boots you're happy with.

Maybe because I've been using cable bindings for years now (previous
setup was the original Rivas on the original Tua Tele Sauvages, the
black and chartreuse combo of each was very distinctive ;-)), but I've
never felt like the cable made much difference in my work rate going
up hill. I did notice on the last trip when the Targas were loose and
my ski wobbled though ;-). I liked my old Rottefella Telemark 3 pin
bindings (on Tua Tout Terrains), but I want more control with that big
pack on my back, so went to cable. With no difference in comfort level
at the end of the day going uphill, and less effort going down ;-). And
that includes breaking trail in knee deep snow to get to the last hut-


Plastic ;-). I hear good things about the T4 and Garmont Excursions. I have
the original T3's. Warmer, drier, lighter (than beefy leather) and more comfy.

I use the original T3, *but* that's because I have Scarpa shaped feet
and their leathers aren't available in the UK. The light plastics are
fine for touring (been there, done that, also consider the Crispi
CX-T) but they are still heavier than leathers designed for touring.
I'd go on fit: you don't need anything particularly chunky for hut to
hut, but it does need to fit you for all day comfort. My plastics
measure up, my old leathers didn't, but that's the shape of *my* feet
and the boots available to me.

Pete.

Exactly- that's why I have Scarpas and my husband has Garmont
Liberos, they are both plastic boots, just made for different shaped
feet ;-). And now he doesn't get blisters anymore, in fact, after
getting the Thermoliners he sold all of his leather boots.

What I really think Ben should do is come in a few days early and
try different setups if he's renting. Obviously, each of us has different
likes/requirements for our gear. I'm just coming from the perspective
of having skied most of the 10th Mountain hut system, and since I
think I'm at a point where I'm happy with all my gear (damn ;-)!),
thought I'd pass along what I've learned. Our group has pretty much
all gone to metal edge tele skis, cable bindings and plastic boots.
Of course, at the last hut the group that came in after us were all on
AT gear, so you can go a variety of ways (and that group sat around
all night talking about real estate and golf, so what does that say about
AT vs. Tele ;-)? We were playing spoons and stabbing each other...)

Tracy Lorraine Smith (on the decidedly non-cool set up of Tua
Montours, Ascension skins, G3 Targas, and original T3's, but a
decidedly functional setup ;-))

Most people use wider metal-edged telemark skis with cable bindings and
plastic boots. I think most the time you will be using skins going up, so
camber, waxing, fish scales etc. are not of great importance. Most of the
hut to hut routes don't have much rolling terrain for kick and glide action.

Alpine touring gear is becoming more popular. I use Atomic Tour Guide Super
Light Skis, Dynafit TLT 4 boots, Dynafit TLT bindings, Ascension skins.

Paragon Guides has the concession on guiding the 10th Mountain Hut system
and they probably have more experience than anybody in this area. Here are
their recommendations snipped from their web page,
http://www.paragonguides.com/gear.htm:

a.. Metal edged, waxable backcountry skis - A metal edge ski is best for
control and support with ample width (54 mm+ at the waist). Sidecut and
flexibility will vary amongst skis and their intended use. A good
backcountry ski has flexibility for powder yet is stiff enough to provide
support for trail skiing with the weight of a pack. Waxless (fishscale) skis
do not work well for most of Colorado¹s dry, cold snow conditions. There are
two binding options: a heavy duty 75mm, 3 pin or a cable binding that fits
snugly to the boot. (Bring an extra cable.)

a.. Ski poles - Good quality adjustable metal poles adapt to the different
types of skiing styles and varying backcountry terrain.

a.. Backcountry Ski Boots - We recommend either leather double boots for
warmth and support or the newer plastic backcountry if they are the newer,
more flexible models. A good personal footbed can be a tremendous asset to
the proper fitting of your boot. Boots should fit into 3-pin or cable
bindings.

You might want to ask them directly.

Paragon Guides
PO Box 130 Vail, Colorado 81658
Toll-Free: 877.926.5299
Phone: 970.926.5299 Fax: 970.926.5298


I have no relationship with Paragon other than being a previous client.

BobT

"Ben Bly" wrote in message
om...
I am going hut-to-hut skiing for 5 days in the 10th mountain system next
month. I will be carrying a 40-50 pound pack. I am 6'4" and 220 lbs.

My current skis are waxable Karhu XCD GT 215cm 62-54-59 with nnn-bc
bindings and alpina BC boots. but the whole set up is a little beat up
after several years.

1) would Fischer outtabound skis be ok for such a trip or should I stick
with longer, double-cambered skis? Plans include a fair amount of
hilly touring, but only a few steep climbs and descents.

2) given my situation and likely conditions in your area in March, should
I go with waxable or waxless?

3) nnn-bc or 3-pin?

3.1) if nnn-bc, manual or auto?

4) any boot recommendations?

Thank you for those very helpful replies! After trying Karhu Sirius
and a couple of other boots I am going with Garmont Excursions,
Fischer outtabounds skis (waxless) and voile 3-pin bindings with an
optional cable attachment.

I am currently planning to bring my kicker skins but no full length
skins.

Bad plan?

Ben

I am currently planning to bring my kicker skins but no full length
skins.

I'd take real skins...
It seems like cheap insurance.
I don't own any half skins.

But then, saving a pound is a good idea too.

What route are you taking? Some of the routes are old mining roads.
They are unlikely to get too steep. Some of the trails will be steeper,
maybe steep enough to want real skins.

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