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#11
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Exactly, Mike T.....
If you have NO overhang whatsoever, unless you ride super stiff boots, you cannot edge with power and speed, as your edging points on your feet are your heels and balls of your feet, which are not at the ends of your feet! Sure you can edge once a day, or several times, but you get tired quickly and end up sliding around. Look at the width of Pro rider's boards..... All the Pipe guys ride narrow for their feet size, like Powers and Terjes 246 sizing, for size 9 boots. They have overhang, so they can edge harder. Also, narrower board edge QUICKER, something you need for riding steeps. But sure, if you prefer riding wide boards and no overhang, more power to you! You can slipslide around everywhere, never catch an edge, and have the best times in powder. My carving boards are 21 and 24.5 waist widths. Pipe boards 25.2 and 25.7. Powder boards 26.2. |
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#12
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If you have NO overhang whatsoever, unless you ride super stiff
boots, you cannot edge with power and speed, as your edging points on your feet are your heels and balls of your feet, which are not at the ends of your feet! I've never understood that argument, because the boots and bindings redistribute the force from your feet, ultimately the force has to go through where the binding attached to the board, and by definition that is on the deck and not outside the edges. Edging hard has to do with getting your weight over the edge, and it seems to me that foot position has a lot less to do with that than where your body mass is. In any case... are we really talking about "wide boards are harder to carve than narrow boards" or are we talking about "on a given board, what angles you choose make it easier or harder to carve"? Mike T ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#13
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LeeD wrote:
If you have NO overhang whatsoever, unless you ride super stiff boots, you cannot edge with power and speed, as your edging points on your feet are your heels and balls of your feet, which are not at the ends of your feet! Interesting argument. Just measuring my street shoe in the office here, I'd need 4" of overhang to center the ball of my foot over the toeside edge and 2" on the heelside. I don't think those are optimal choices Back in the stoneage when I rode softies (and this was ski bladders inside Sorels), I pressured the edges mostly with ankle flexion and with the assist of the high back on the heelside. I had no overhang and recall mostly getting tired on long heelside traverses. Has softie technique changed so much? Neil |
#14
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It amazes/amuses me to see people so positive that their sweeping
generalities are absolute. More to the point, that their situation, likes and dislikes are above others. I am curious, what is your setup and in what conditions do you ride? Did I offended you in someway? Chris Neil Gendzwill wrote: Christopher Cox wrote: You may have had to much overhang with your particular setup, thereby causing you problems. But some overhang is normal and in many cases optimal. With 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch overhang on each side, you can carve well over 45 degrees without interference. Yes, if you carve way over 45 degrees, you need a setup for that. But these types are usually hard booter's with angles that rarely get in the way. With that much overhang, maybe you'll see contact if you're testing your board on a flat surface. But the snow is not flat and furthermore if it's soft you'll dig in, so I think you'll get some drag. I don't understand why anyone would want any overhang at all, ever. OTOH the only time most soft booters see an inclination approaching 45 degrees is when they're skidding down the hill on their heel edge on a slope that's too steep for them. Neil |
#15
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Christopher Cox wrote:
I am curious, what is your setup and in what conditions do you ride? I have two, a 21.5 cm Coiler AM that I ride at 45/40 and a 24.5 cm waisted Rad-Air Tanker at 35/30, hard boots. No overhang. Did I offended you in someway? Uhm, no, what in my post caused you to think that? I'm just giving my opinion. In particular, when I said "I don't understand why anyone would want any overhang", I'm genuinely curious why. Because my impression is that overhang is what happens when people buy a standard-waisted board, stand on it with standard freestyle angles in whatever size boots they happen to have, and live with it. If there's a solid technical reason to live with toe or heel drag other than tha's the way it worked out given the equipment you have and the stance you want, I'm curious to hear it. Neil |
#16
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You talk too much theory, don't look around at people snowboarding!
Use the pros as an example, because we know they can edge.....right? And we wouldn't mind riding somewhat similarly....right? Terje...size 9 feet stuffed into 8 shell, 8.5 liner, toe relief cuts. His standard 156 for pipe was a 242 width. RossPowers, look up this boardwidth (24.6) and his feet size....9.5's stuffed into 9's. ShaunWhite, 242 width, that dude is easily 5'10" tall and maybe 135 lbs., so what do you think his feetsize are???? OK, I don't know, but at least a 9. Look at the width! CrisEnglesman from the old daze.....special FatBob with Clickers, size 13's, board width 26.8...but he rode basically 7 and -5 degrees, just a straight across duckstance....the widest you can be. You can carve a couple nice turns with any width board, but if you need holding power all day, go as narrow as your feetsize and stance will allow. Pow, go was wide as you want. Mike T, you don't know simple physics! If your feet are nailed to a 2' wide board, you'd never have the power to edge it at speed. If your feet are nailed to 9" wide board, you'd easily tip it over, carve it hard, and have some toe drag ....so you add risers to lift your foot off the snow, just like raceboarders, for the clearance. Geez......... |
#17
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"LeeD" wrote You DO need some overhand on freestyle gear if you want to be able to edge. Be more specific he edge where and how? Run a straightedge from the board's edges up to toe of boot on the toeside, then from the edge of board to the back of the binding on the heelside. A good general rule is if it's steeper than 45 degrees, you can ride OK. If it's shallower than about 25 degrees, you will get drag. While there's no reason for me to argue with this, the whole point of my post is that this "general rule" simply doesn't work for some people (me, for example), and whoever is choosing the next board just might want to question this rule too. For example, by getting a demo of a wider board or borrowing one from a friend for a while. If you're good enough to know exactly when you drag, disregard this post....because you already know! Here, here! Little feet need narrower boards, big feet wider, but combine heavy weight with medium feet, you still need wide board so you can enjoy riding powder, the best of snowboarding.... While it's obvious that a narrower board is better, the question really is "how wide you should go for a particular boot/stance/place/rider?". For close to zero angles (I currently ride +20/-5), the overhang would be very easy to calculate. Say, with 27.5 boot you've got probably extra 2-3cm of boot and therefore the boot itself would be ~29-30cm long. My board is 27.1 waist and probably around 27.5cm under bindings, so I get about a centimeter worth of overhang on each side. (went and checked - yup, pretty much spot on - the board is Nitro Saber 162, boots are TirtyTwo Tm-One). Now if we were riding on ice (I hope not), it would take insane angles to get any toe/heel drag on a setup like this. But snow is soft so the edge sinks in. What's worse, snow is uneven and so the edge sometimes cuts deep into a bump, and you get boot-out knock-out even if you don't have any overhang at all. What I'm trying to point out is that the amount of overhang you need is a matter of preference. You WILL get boot-out once in a while no matter how wide you go. Depending on where and how you ride, you might get boot drag very often if you don't have a wide board even with normal size boots. Try wide and duck, you just might like it I for one regret the time I've spent on a normal board with forward stance, because the latter doesn't work nearly as well for me as duck and wide. -- Dmitry |
#18
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"Christopher Cox" wrote First of all, I am not trying to start a flame war here. I just take exception to some of the generalities made here, and am just trying to help. What's wrong with starting a flame war? You're in a snowboarding newsgroup after all, no need for disclaimers You may have had to much overhang with your particular setup, thereby causing you problems. But some overhang is normal and in many cases optimal. With 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch overhang on each side, you can carve well over 45 degrees without interference. ...on ice or maybe freshly groomed. Who needs that, let the skiers and hardbooters deal with those utterly boring types of terrain My suggestion is demo some appropriate equipment combinations, find what works for you and the conditions you are going to be spending most of your time with (Hardpack, powder, tree's, park, etc.). Me too! |
#19
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"Neil Gendzwill" wrote understand why anyone would want any overhang at all, ever. OTOH the only time most soft booters see an inclination approaching 45 degrees is when they're skidding down the hill on their heel edge on a slope that's too steep for them. I often get over 90 degrees just before I make a nice crater in the snow. |
#20
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My two freestyle boards, both 27 and minus 3....that's my all around
stance, at 22" wide. Size 11 boots, maybe 44/45, L bindings, 25.7 or 25.3 wide boards. Overhang about 1" toe, maybe 3/4 rear binding loop. That's about 60 degree toe, closer to 75 degree heel binding strap, so it never drags noticeably. My pow board, 169 x 26.2, gets same stance but rearfoot +12. Since it gets EX Ride bindings, a lower base, I get about the same overhang. Don't need to ride switch with a 169 with 2.5" setback stance. My AvalancheIceRocket at 24.4 width, gets 45/27 stance, about the same overhang! Working at a snowboard shop for 8 years, got to try almost all the highend boards that we carried (Burton, Ride, Avalanche, Sims, K2, Winterstick, Hot, and a few others.... When I talk carving, I mean with my RaichleHardBoots and Hot Spot or Logical, full on slalom and GS raceboards with plate bindings. |
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