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required clothing



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 5th 05, 03:14 AM
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Default required clothing

Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in
spring.
The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type jackets
/ pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct?


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  #2  
Old December 5th 05, 04:01 AM
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Ibk" wrote in message
...
Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in
spring.
The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type
jackets / pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct?


If you have shells, you can always layer up or down with
clothes underneath the shell.

I have several shells, mostly all I use is shells. It's nice to
change the look now and then you know.

But you *need* waterproof/breathable *membranes*
in the pants and windshell, like gore tex, helly tech, etc.
Columbia, North Face, etc, all make clothes that use
the gore tex type membrane. It will pass water as a vapor,
but not as a liquid. Good stuff.

Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless.

If your shells don't have the membrane, you might just get wet
and miserable.

You should be able to pay retail sixty to eighty bucks for pants,
only nylon and membrane, no insulation, about the same for the
jacket. Since these are usually spring items, you could maybe
even save money this time of year.


"



  #3  
Old December 5th 05, 05:55 AM
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"Sven Golly" wrote in message
...

"foot2foot" wrote in news:11p7iaaoc4dlo30
@corp.supernews.com:

But you *need* waterproof/breathable *membranes*


Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless.


Not true. The term membrane is also wrong in this context since coatings
and laminates (the word I think you meant) are both membranes.


No I didn't mean laminate. I meant membrane. A coating is a
coating. You spray it on.

Membrane. White thing. Kinda layer sorta. You can actually see it
in there. Call it a laminate if you want. It's a membrane similarly to
a "semi permeable membrane". Osmosis. Same kinda thing. It
passes some things and not others. Or, in one direction, not another.
Same kinda thing. Membrane.

There are lots of ways to skin a cat or make clothing
waterproof/breathable. Some of the really high tech coatings do just as
well as Gore-Tex (a laminate).


Not to my experience. "Coatings" are B.S. Membranes are
the stuff.

There are also a lot of bad coatings that mostly turn a good piece of
nylon into a sauna.

You also have to add construction, ventilation, liners and all sorts of
other things into the picture.


Nah, you just need a shell. You can layer up or down
underneath it. You need the waterproof breathable
membrane tho. You get warm, unzip it a bit. You get cold,
zip up, or add layers. The membrane passes water as a
vapor, but not as a liquid.

Regardless. It doesn't make any difference to this poster
and his/her question.

We're not talking Mt. Everest death zone here.
We're talking Aspen or something.

Sven, you always want to make things that
are simple so complicated.

How's that for a "you" message?



  #4  
Old December 5th 05, 12:37 PM
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bk wrote:
Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in
spring.
The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type jackets
/ pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct?


Probably, although after a winter of skiing in Vermont, Colorado in
March always seems pretty balmy to me. Conditions will be colder than
what you're used to, so just add more layers.

  #5  
Old December 5th 05, 12:40 PM
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foot2foot wrote:

Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless.


If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex
outerwear, you're wrong.


  #6  
Old December 5th 05, 01:04 PM
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"Mary Malmros" wrote in message
news:[email protected]


foot2foot wrote:

Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless.


If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex
outerwear, you're wrong.




I'm not wrong.

From "REI expert advice".


Water-Repellent Coatings

To maximize water-resistance and breathability, Gore-Tex outerwear comes
with a DWR (durable water repellent) treatment on its outer surface. This
DWR causes water to bead up and roll off the garment, which keeps the fabric
surface clear so that sweat and body heat can pass through from the inside.
DWR treatments also keep the fabric surface drier, which cuts down on
evaporative heat loss and keeps your outerwear light and comfortable.

Over time, with regular laundering and exposure to the elements, DWR
treatments can wear off. When this occurs, water may no longer bead on the
surface of the outerwear fabric, and the fabric may absorb some water (NOTE:
the Gore-Tex barrier beneath the outer fabric will still stop this moisture
from getting to your skin). The best way to renew your DWR is to launder
your Gore-Tex outerwear according to the care instructions and iron it using
a warm steam setting. This will restore the water beading on the outer
surface of the fabric as long as the original water-repellent treatment is
present.

Unfortunately, there is no permanent water-repellent treatment available.
Eventually, after extended wear and/or many washings, the original repellent
finish will be depleted and you'll need to use a spray-on or wash-in
water-repellency treatment to treat the outer surface of the fabric. You may
repeat this process as many times as needed.


If all you have on an item of clothing is a sprayed on coating
and no membrane and they *claim* it's waterproof
breathable, basically what you have is nothing at all, and
they're lying.






  #7  
Old December 5th 05, 01:13 PM
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foot2foot wrote:



"Mary Malmros" wrote in message
news:[email protected]


foot2foot wrote:


Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless.


If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex
outerwear, you're wrong.





I'm not wrong.

From "REI expert advice".


The "expert advice" explains in detail the usefulness of the DWR
coating. So, I repeat: if you're calling the DWR coating useless,
you're wrong.

I've got a lot of experience with DWR-coated clothing, using it not only
for skiing but also for whitewater kayaking, where you _really_ notice
the difference (the evaporative cooling that the REI "expert advice"
speaks of). Water doesn't seep through a drytop with the DWR coating
worn off, but you definitely notice a difference in heat loss.

  #8  
Old December 5th 05, 01:20 PM
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"Mary Malmros" wrote in message
news:[email protected]


foot2foot wrote:

"Mary Malmros" wrote in message
news:[email protected]


foot2foot wrote:


Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless.

If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex
outerwear, you're wrong.





I'm not wrong.

From "REI expert advice".


The "expert advice" explains in detail the usefulness of the DWR coating.
So, I repeat: if you're calling the DWR coating useless, you're wrong.

I've got a lot of experience with DWR-coated clothing, using it not only
for skiing but also for whitewater kayaking, where you _really_ notice the
difference (the evaporative cooling that the REI "expert advice" speaks
of). Water doesn't seep through a drytop with the DWR coating worn off,
but you definitely notice a difference in heat loss.


Glad to see you're awake. The actual point of the discussion was, can a
coating alone do the same job that a waterproof breathable membrane can do,
coating added or not. The answer is no. You've missed the context and point
of the whole discussion.

If you want to stay dry, you need a gore tex style membrane, not just a
coating the makers claim is water proof /breathable. It's not.



  #9  
Old December 5th 05, 01:37 PM
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foot2foot wrote:



"Mary Malmros" wrote in message
news:[email protected]


foot2foot wrote:


"Mary Malmros" wrote in message
news:[email protected]


foot2foot wrote:



Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless.

If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex
outerwear, you're wrong.





I'm not wrong.

From "REI expert advice".


The "expert advice" explains in detail the usefulness of the DWR coating.
So, I repeat: if you're calling the DWR coating useless, you're wrong.

I've got a lot of experience with DWR-coated clothing, using it not only
for skiing but also for whitewater kayaking, where you _really_ notice the
difference (the evaporative cooling that the REI "expert advice" speaks
of). Water doesn't seep through a drytop with the DWR coating worn off,
but you definitely notice a difference in heat loss.



Glad to see you're awake.


Glad to see you're still committed to treating others in a discussion
with respect, regardless of whether they agree with you or not.

The actual point of the discussion was, can a
coating alone do the same job that a waterproof breathable membrane can do,
coating added or not. The answer is no. You've missed the context and point
of the whole discussion.


I guess I missed it because you never said that, nor did OP or anyone
else state that as "the actual point of the discussion". I thought the
actual point was to answer the OP's question about what to wear while
skiing in Vermont, and how it compares to skiing in Colorado in the
spring, and since I've done both (typically every year), I chimed in.

What _you_ stated, and what I responded to, was, "Waterproof breathable
'coatings' are useless." In fact, they are not. I have quite a few
garments made of Goretex and other breathable fabrics, and I observe
quite a difference in effectiveness between a garment with its DWR
intact and one where the DWR is shot. This is obviously most noticeable
in an environment where the garment is constantly getting wet, such as
whitewater kayaking, but not all skiing is done in desert-dry
conditions, and DWR has value in a skiing garment too.

  #10  
Old December 5th 05, 01:41 PM
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bk wrote:
Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in
spring.
The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type jackets
/ pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct?


Yes, that's what you want to take to VT. Bring two layers of fleece and
two layers of hot chilis in case it gets cold. Maybe a down vest. That's
the idea of a shell - you add more and more layers underneath it as the
temps drop.

Get a neck gaiter if you don't have one already. It's amazing how much
difference this little garmet can make.

//Walt
 




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