First skiing hol advice needed

You do seem to have a bad week with crystal! The reps do not have to do
the lift passes, you can do this perfectly easily in the resort. I
always found telling them this stopped them messing about.

The allowing you access to the chalet so early in the morning is, IMHO,
quite a plus for Crystal.


With us crystal have always been OK. The really bad experiences have
been with first choice who left us for 3 hours on a car park in St.
Anton in freezing conditions (apparently the resort manager had been
arrested for a traffic offence and thought his clients were a minor
concern) and presented rather poor quality food, and ski olympic in
Courechevel who managed to loose my wife's skis and compounded it by
appearing not to give a damm. On later holidays both companies gave
adequate service.

John

Roger wrote:
Steve Haigh wrote in message ...

ash wrote:

What is wrong with Crystal???? We always use them and they are far better
than Inghams, Thompson etc especially for catered chalets.


Rather than state why I'll never touch Crystal again here's a letter I
wrote to them a while back. Despite the holiday being in Meribel the
reply opened with 'regard your recent holiday to Italy' - and barely
managed to apologise.

letter

Chalet xxx, Meribel-Mottaret 22 - 29 December 2001

Dear Sir / Madam

I am writing to complain of the substandard service we received from
Crystal on our recent holiday at the above chalet.

There were three main areas of concern: getting to the resort, issues
with the chalet and getting back:

1. Getting there

We were extremely happy that despite industrial action by Eurtostar
staff, our train left Waterloo on time and arrived at 5:50 AM the next
morning in Moutiers dead on time.

We then found the Crystal reps and were directed to our coach by 6 AM
to be told that we'd be on our way to the resort by 6:30 AM. However,
we were unable to wait on the coach as, for some reason, it was full
of exhaust fumes which we were told were "normal". So we had to wait
outside in the cold until the fumes died down.

6:30 AM came and went as the "reps" organised lift passes etc. On
every other ski holiday I've been on this is arranged on the move but
we were told we could not go until it was done. It later transpired
that the "reps" were in fact resort nannies, not trained for what they
were doing hence taking extra long time. We were constantly told we
were "about to leave" and then just sat there. No one took control of
the situation and told us what was actually happening.

So, after a long, cold, tiring and somewhat smelly wait for an hour
and a forty minutes our coach finally moved at around 7:30 AM (by this
time we'd long been the only coach in the station car park as all the
other tour operators' coaches managed to leave promptly).

The short coach transfer was one of the appeals of going via Eurostar
but the one hour stated was actually two and a half due to the
seemingly pointless delays. We were also fobbed off rather bluntly by
stories that there was "no point" leaving any earlier as the chalets
were not ready which simply wasn't true as we were the first occupants
and on arrival our chalet host told us he had been up since 5:30 AM
awaiting us.

The problems did not end there, the next was one of serious concern.
There was clearly a fault with the coach as once the engine was
running again more exhaust fumes entered. This was extremely
unpleasant and hazardous; passengers were coughing and people's eyes
were watering. This was extremely concerning for health reasons I'm
sure you'd agree.

2. The chalet & service

We were generally pleased with the chalet and were greeted very
cordially by our chalet Host XXX. However, there were several issues
with the chalet:

- There was only one key for the chalet (not just for the guests but
for our host as well)

- The ski "locker" had no key at all so could not be locked - this
was of great concern as I'd had my skis stolen the year before.

- On one side of our bed there were 3 slats missing so the mattress
simply fell through - we had to put a wardrobe door under the mattress
in order to sleep on it. On the other side a slat was missing in the
middle and I awoke with severe back ache the next morning (the bed was
fixed the next day once we'd reported it).

- The upstairs toilet leaked and so had to be fixed. We were without
this for the better part of two days which not only meant sharing one
toilet but no toilet was available if the shower was in use.

- The door on the bedroom would not shut this giving even less privacy
in the already small room.

There were other areas that did not affect us directly such as a
dishwasher that leaked all over the floor, a shower that didn't drain
properly and oven that had to be replaced that all contributed to an
air of chaos and disorganisation rather than of relaxation one expects
on a holiday, especially one booked 6 months in advance. Out chalet
host Ian, did a great job under some very trying circumstances.

We were pleased with the chalet location but the description in the
brochure as 3 minutes walk to the lifts was somewhat of a joke with
ski boots and skis!

Resort staff were friendly and generally helpful. However, we were
offered "ski-do" trips which we decided to book on the birthday of one
of our group. The evening before we were due to go we were told that
the booking hadn't been made and we had to do it ourselves which
involved wasted skiing time going to sort out the booking.

One evening our chalet host did not return to the chalet until after
7:30 pm. The reason, we were told, is that he and other chalet hosts
had been left in Albertville after doing the weekly shop as their
coaches did not return to pick them up. As a result our meal was very
late and not of a very high quality - we sympathised with Ian, our
chalet host as he'd been let down and had to prepare a meal quickly.

We generally felt that your resort staff worked very hard with no
support from Crystal which they must have found very frustrating.

3. Getting back

We were given clear instructions that we were to be outside a nearby
supermarket at 7:55 PM on departure day where we would be picked up by
coach number 41. We waited 40 minutes in the cold and rain before a
Thompson coach turned up with no number nor indication that it was for
Crystal passengers as well. The Thompson rep apologised for being a
"few minutes" late as she had our pick up time as 8:35 PM, I therefore
showed her the written instructions we had stating 7:55 PM; another
result of poor management and organisation. We would not have minded
the wait in our chalet but standing outside was most unpleasant
especially as one of our group was suffering from a chest infection.

Neither on the way down to Moutiers nor upon arrival at the station
did we have a single address from a rep. We didn't mind that we
weren't thanked for booking with Crystal or wished a safe journey home
etc., but we didn't expect to be just dumped at Moutiers station
without any idea of what the procedure was. Finally we managed to find
a helpful rep from Ski World (we actually saw 3 from ski World and not
one from Crystal) who helpfully informed us what the procedure was.

All in all, we had a great holiday, but I'm afraid to say this was
largely in spite of Crystal and not because of. Most interaction with
Crystal led to frustration or completely wrong information.

We expected a great deal more from a large tour operator but
Crystal's whole attitude smacked of doing the absolute minimum to get
by. The problems did NOT appear to be due to the resort staff
themselves, rather a poor support and management structure behind
them.

The general excuse was that this was the first real week of the
season. However, I don't expect my Christmas holiday to be a "warm up"
for poorly trained or inexperienced staff or problems that should have
been checked and sorted prior to our arrival.

I don't think I would book with or recommend Crystal again.

/letter ends

I felt compelled to complain as I'd already given Crystal the benefit
of the doubt before after one of their cock ups which had our group
having cleared customs at the Paris railway station and all our bags
left on the concourse as the Crystal rep assured us they'd follow.
Thus I had to be escorted back by French customs officials to collect
8 people's luggage.

The first thing I always say to my booking agent is, "even if you've
got a week in Val d'Isere for £100 - I still wouldn't take it if it's
with Crystal".

12 hours to the Tarentaise is going well. But then a lot depends on
where in the Tarrentaise you are going. From Birmingham we recon on 3-4
hours to the tunnel (Friday night can be very slow), 1-2 hours to get
across the channel (sometimes longer on the return trip when the
shuttles can run very infrequently) then about 9 hours to somewhere like
Courchevel. And this does not include time for a snooze. We share the
driving and sleeping and like you would always reeccomend driving
overnight and getting a full days skiing in the next day.

One year our party traveled by plane, car and train to La Plagne and the
journey times, door to door were 14, 16 and 22 hours respectively (In
fairness it must be pointed out that most of the snow train journey
consisted of eating, drinking, talking and sleeping)

IMHO driving is the best way to take young children skiing since you can
carry all their gubins and avoid all the hasle of the multiple
car-bus-aiport lounge (not a plesant place with
children)-plane-airport-bus routine when flying. They simply sleep all
the way.

We drove down to Serre Chevalier for a summer holiday and the total cost
of ferry, fuel and tolls came to roughly £300 return.

Ace wrote:

On 1 Sep 2004 20:41:06 +0100, (Adrian D. Shaw) wrote:



Driving has the advantages:


The disadvantages:
1. Takes longer (24 hours typically from my home in mid Wales to the
apartment door in Switzerland, including the ferry)


Blimey, you obviously driove slowly:-) OK so you're some distance away
within Britain, I know, but even so...

I used to reckon I could get to the Tarentaise in about 12 hours total
from Milton Keynes, so depending on which Swiss resorts, it could be
slightly more or less than that.


2. Driving overnight is tiring and may affect your first day's skiing
(so only a realistic possibility if there's more than 1 driver)


And even then it will make you tired. We used to leave Friday
afternoon, get as far down the Autoroutes as we could before our eyes
closed, then kip for two or three hours in the car before continuing
and arriving in resort around breakfast time on the Saturday morning.
So a full day's skiing was possible, albeit at a slightly reduced pace
from normal :-)

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 22:37:29 +0100, John Elgy
wrote:

12 hours to the Tarentaise is going well. But then a lot depends on
where in the Tarrentaise you are going.

Well, I once did Tignes solo in 13 hours during the day, but TBH it's
so long since I've needed to do it (living on t'other side now) I
can't remember the specific timings from individual trips

From Birmingham we recon on 3-4
hours to the tunnel (Friday night can be very slow), 1-2 hours to get
across the channel (sometimes longer on the return trip when the
shuttles can run very infrequently)

I don't understand - how does it take 1-2 hours to get through the
tunnel? I've never had to wait for more than half-an-hour for a train,
even at busy periods, so that's a total of 1 hour. My return journeys
always used to start on the Saturday evening, getting as far as
feasible and stopping in a cheap motel, hence arriving at the tunnel
mid-late afternoon when there's still plenty of shuttles running.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

With us crystal have always been OK.

There is a lot of good will within Crystal to give people a great
holiday but sometimes it doesn't work out. The one thing one must not do
on a holiday is let some minor incident blow out of all proportion and
spoil what should be a special week. It has to be remembered that many
reps work 80 hour weeks and will often do 24 hours straight on a
transport Saturday, perhaps doing 2 or even 3 airport runs on a busy
weekend. The resort manager may spend 36 hours on his feet organising
all this.


Just a few comments on the letter which may be of interest.


It later transpired
that the "reps" were in fact resort nannies, not trained for what they
were doing hence taking extra long time.

It is fairly common for TOs to push all resort staff into service on
transfer day. The logictics of transfering several thousands guests all
over the Alps are simply mind-boggling. Crystal do train nannies for
transfer day although this is obviously not their main job. Using
nannies as reps keeps overall holiday costs down. At the same time
guests, and Crystal should recognise that most nannies are quite young
and are really focussed on kids not making money by flogging ski packs.


we were the first occupants
and on arrival our chalet host told us he had been up since 5:30 AM
awaiting us.

This may be true, although chalet hosts have to live with you all week
so will say practically anything to have a quietish time.


The problems did not end there, the next was one of serious concern.
There was clearly a fault with the coach as once the engine was
running again more exhaust fumes entered. This was extremely
unpleasant and hazardous; passengers were coughing and people's eyes
were watering. This was extremely concerning for health reasons I'm
sure you'd agree.

Personally I wouldn't have stayed on this coach for the transfer, it
sounds very dangerous. I'd been interested in Crystals response to this.
Maybe you should have noted the bus number and reported it to the resort
Gendarmerie? French police take a very dim view of coaches with serious
faults.

- There was only one key for the chalet (not just for the guests but
for our host as well)

Agghh, the nightmare of French doorlocks. It was probably one of these
patent lock mechansims for which duplicate keys are hard to get and very
expensive. Still no excuse.

We expected a great deal more from a large tour operator

What you've come up against are the limitations of using a large TO.
With hundreds of coach movements and thousands of guests each weekend it
is very hard to offer that personal touch that can make a holiday. It is
also so often a case that one or two incidents can then snowball to give
an overall negative impression of the trip. There is also the Anne
Robinson effect, where guests spend there whole holiday looking for some
way to claim back all or part of their trip rather than ignoring minor
problems and getting on with having a good time. To some extent there
are always people who complain whatever and in terms of cost/benefit
there come a cut-off point where it is not worth making more effort. The
positive thing about a big operator is when things really go wrong. For
example after serious weather hit flights and transfers one weekend
Crystal were able to get everyone stranded into resort by making special
flights on Sunday.

I'm not an apologist for Crystal or any other big TO but the profit
margins on package holidays are so thin that it is hard to offer a
quality service. Why do TOs still push apres? Because it is one of the
major components in making money on holidays where margins have been
squeezed to nothing by budget airlines, airport transfer services and
direct Internet bookings. If you want some control over your holiday do
it this way.

The general excuse was that this was the first real week of the
season. However, I don't expect my Christmas holiday to be a "warm up"
for poorly trained or inexperienced staff or problems that should have
been checked and sorted prior to our arrival.

The Crystal training course if one of the best in the industry but as
you say, experience is the key. You can see a real difference between
the quality of service where a resort has experienced (3years + repping
or management) staff. However it is really pot-luck whether you get this.

To sum up, you had a bad holiday and should complain. To future guests,
recognise the limits of package holidays and try and have a good
holiday. Beyond the purely monetary value it is a precious week of
vacation. Still, part of the reason we love package holidays is for all
the cock-ups. Gives us something to talk about back at the office.

Ace wrote:
On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 22:37:29 +0100, John Elgy
wrote:


12 hours to the Tarentaise is going well. But then a lot depends on
where in the Tarrentaise you are going.


Well, I once did Tignes solo in 13 hours during the day, but TBH it's
so long since I've needed to do it (living on t'other side now) I
can't remember the specific timings from individual trips



From Birmingham we recon on 3-4

hours to the tunnel (Friday night can be very slow), 1-2 hours to get
across the channel (sometimes longer on the return trip when the
shuttles can run very infrequently)


I don't understand - how does it take 1-2 hours to get through the
tunnel? I've never had to wait for more than half-an-hour for a train,
even at busy periods, so that's a total of 1 hour. My return journeys
always used to start on the Saturday evening, getting as far as
feasible and stopping in a cheap motel, hence arriving at the tunnel
mid-late afternoon when there's still plenty of shuttles running.



When we arive at the Folkstone terminal it seems that one has always
just gone and the next isn't for over 1/2 an hour, sometimes much longer
(they are much more frequent during busy times so you wait less at busy
times). The shuttle then takes about 35 minutes from starting to roll to
stopping. Then there is all the getting on/off, driving around in
circles at Folkstone etc. I don't think apart from the very first time I
used the shuttle it has ever taken less than 1 hour from leaving the
motorway to getting back on it; 1 1/2 hours is probably the mean.

On one occaision we had to wait over 2 hours from 04:00 onwards on a
Sunday morning in Calais for a shuttle.


John

When we arive at the Folkstone terminal it seems that one has always just
gone and the next isn't for over 1/2 an hour, sometimes much longer (they
are much more frequent during busy times so you wait less at busy times).
The shuttle then takes about 35 minutes from starting to roll to stopping.
Then there is all the getting on/off, driving around in circles at
Folkstone etc. I don't think apart from the very first time I used the
shuttle it has ever taken less than 1 hour from leaving the motorway to
getting back on it; 1 1/2 hours is probably the mean.

On one occaision we had to wait over 2 hours from 04:00 onwards on a
Sunday morning in Calais for a shuttle.


John


Is it not cheaper to pre book a shuttle time and turn up for that? I've
done that twice without bother, just wondering. Last time used a firm who
did some Ibis hotels as well on the way down and back, pretty good deal I
thought, http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/index.htm If there are better ways
I'd love to know as I plan on doing this again at Christmas.

Bill

Yn erthygl , sgrifennodd
Bill Seddon :
Is it not cheaper to pre book a shuttle time and turn up for that?

It always seems to me to be far more than the ferries. Hence, since the
early days (when duty free I suppose still subsidised it) we've never
been on le shuttle.

Adrian



--
Adrian Shaw ais@
Adran Cyfrifiadureg, Prifysgol Cymru, aber.
Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Cymru ac.
http://users.aber.ac.uk/ais uk