Skating Elitism.

--- Ken Roberts wrote:


But in Skating competition the USA team has not closed the gap
against the
best in the world. How can we be so sure that part of the gap is
not due
to superior new skating techniques by some of the Euro teams,
techniques
which we have not yet understood -- or perhaps have not yet even
detected?

Or it could be that in classic technique dominates so we can compete on
that basis. But in skating "fitness" dominates and perhaps the Euros
have better training (or better doping).

Rob Bradlee

wrote in message
ups.com...
Over the last year there have been many interesting comments about
classic style skiing here at RSN.

I just came back from 10 days of skiing and found this "hot" discussion you
guys had last week...

While I was away from computers for the last ten days and totally unaware of
this thread, I had the opportunity to talk with a small group of young
racers (18 to 25 years old, racing at the national level) about their
preferences. Was it because of the typical local snow and trail conditions
they experienced while growing up and learning to ski, the personal
preferences of their trainers, or some other unknown reasons? None of them
cold tell, but they all agreed that they all preferred classic. One even
mentioned that he would be a very happy skier I he never had to skate ski!
That he wanted to quit after the 1st km of his last skate race but kept
going because his family had made the trip to see him ski...

On a personal level, I classic ski. Only. I am not attracted to skate
skiing. Just like some skaters have no interest in classic. Nothing more,
nothing less. All the previous questions (and their answers) in this thread
about which technique is more this or that are of no importance to me.

I am happy with classic skiing. I can go almost anywhere, at any pace I
choose to. If for whatever reason one day I am not happy anymore with
classic skiing, for sure I will give skating a try.

BarryT

For what it's worth, here's my take: if you ask
any well rounded skier which he/she likes better, chances are
they will say classic. If you show up at a popular ski area
where there is plenty of opportunity to do either, 90% of the
proficient skiers are skating. Beginners and high school
teams or large training groups don't count because they
probably didn't have a real choice. But I figure any
30- or 40-ish young skier skiing alone and who has pretty
decent technique probably could be doing either.

There are a lot of reasons to skate more. Maybe skating is more fun.
Maybe it is less of a hassle when it comes to waxing. Maybe
is fits in better with the longer season that includes rollerskiing.
Maybe the conditions aren't good for classic as often as they
are for skating. Maybe it makes sense to do the classic
skiing in solitude on classic-only trails or on ungroomed trails
(stealth skiing). But my point is that most of the
decent/proficient skiers are really skating a lot more than
classic, and maybe nor admitting to it.

Each technique is clearly "best" (i.e., more fun to do) under specific
conditions. Earlier in this ski year at the Canmore Nordic Centre I
skated exclusively; the classic tracks were icy and quite disagreeable,
while the glide was great outside the tracks, so why not skate? But
after a week of continuously cold weather (highs of -15 to -20C;
overnight lows of -26C) I have switched entirely to classic; the glide
in the tracks is great and the kick is rock solid, while outside of the
tracks the glide is non-existent (like skiing on sandpaper). Of course,
if you're in a race you're stuck with a technique, but if you're just
out for a good ski, it's nice to have both techniques available so that
you can choose the best one for the prevailing conditions.

Bob Larson wrote:
For what it's worth, here's my take: if you ask
any well rounded skier which he/she likes better, chances are
they will say classic. If you show up at a popular ski area
where there is plenty of opportunity to do either, 90% of the
proficient skiers are skating. Beginners and high school
teams or large training groups don't count because they
probably didn't have a real choice. But I figure any
30- or 40-ish young skier skiing alone and who has pretty
decent technique probably could be doing either.

There are a lot of reasons to skate more. Maybe skating is more fun.
Maybe it is less of a hassle when it comes to waxing. Maybe
is fits in better with the longer season that includes rollerskiing.
Maybe the conditions aren't good for classic as often as they
are for skating. Maybe it makes sense to do the classic
skiing in solitude on classic-only trails or on ungroomed trails
(stealth skiing). But my point is that most of the
decent/proficient skiers are really skating a lot more than
classic, and maybe nor admitting to it.

"Mitch Collinsworth" wrote in message
rnell.edu...
I never see wimp-skate taught anywhere but it makes a great low
gear for those folks who think they're "not in good enough shape
to skate".

-Mitch


"Wimp-skate" or "diagonal skate" was taught in a Gunde Svan skating tape.
He didn't do it. A woman skater did.

Everett wrote:
Each technique is clearly "best" (i.e., more fun to do) under specific
conditions. Earlier in this ski year at the Canmore Nordic Centre I
skated exclusively; the classic tracks were icy and quite
disagreeable, while the glide was great outside the tracks, so why
not skate? But after a week of continuously cold weather (highs of
-15 to -20C; overnight lows of -26C) I have switched entirely to
classic; the glide in the tracks is great and the kick is rock solid,
while outside of the tracks the glide is non-existent (like skiing on
sandpaper). Of course, if you're in a race you're stuck with a
technique, but if you're just out for a good ski, it's nice to have
both techniques available so that you can choose the best one for the
prevailing conditions.

Exactly.


--
Terje Henriksen
Kirkenes

This seems to be a common mind-block for physicists.
They love to micro-analyze everything

Just got my field results from micro-analyzing my leg-push comparing with
Carl Swenson's:

Skated up the notorious "Russian" hill on East Mountain at Mt Van Hoevenberg
with no poling, and no stopping for any rest. (and continued on to the
"original American" trail summit).

At the beginning of last season I could not skate up the Russian hill
without stopping -- even with poling. Since then I did less training hours
of all kinds, much less rollerskiing, and less hill-training than the
previous summer-fall.

I think I'll hold off my switch to the non-micro-analyzing approach just a
little longer.

Ken

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 02:01:57 GMT, "Ken Roberts"
wrote:

Skated up the notorious "Russian" hill
on East Mountain at Mt Van Hoevenberg
with no poling, and no stopping for any rest.
(and continued on to the
"original American" trail summit).

Whoa.

JT

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Conditions at Van Ho that day were a gift for hill-climbing: Thawed through
the night, then re-froze in the morning. Andrey and his wife wanted to try
East Mountain, but I turned back when I saw how hard the snow was, because I
was afraid about what ice we might encounter on the descent.

On my way back I tried skating up two short steep climbs with no poles. And
Mitch Collingsworth is right: I could feel my technique improving. So I kept
repeating those climbs, focusing on the "flip side" of the knee-drive move,
the image of driving my heel back behind my hip during phase one of my
leg-push.

Then I found Andrey and his wife again, and they said the descent from East
Mt was survivable. I told Andrey how exciting I was finding it to skate up
hills with no poling, but he said that you needed to use the poles to climb
on icy hardpack. Of course I had to prove him wrong, so I headed for East
Mountain, but I brought along my poles just in case. Climbing up the
connector trail, I found it that Andrey was right: there was a
sem-transparent patch where I did use my poles to help.

When I saw the start of the Russian hill, my reaction was "That's all? I
thought I remembered that it was super-steep". I immediately knew I would be
able to climb it all the way without any poling.

Before that day I never imagined I would even try that on East Mt. Now I
don't know if I'll ever be able to do it again in different snow conditions.
But I think I'll try.

Ken

poet Byron was "mad, bad, and dangerous to know."

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Ken Roberts wrote:

Skated up the notorious "Russian" hill on East Mountain at Mt Van Hoevenberg
with no poling, and no stopping for any rest. (and continued on to the
"original American" trail summit).

Without poles? Ken you beast, you! I'm impressed!

Probably one of the reasons that hill is so legendary is that the steep pitch
comes after a fairly lengthy run-in climb at a lesser pitch. In a race you
can be pushing yourself to keep speed up over the run-in, feeling like you're
doing pretty good, then come around the corner and find yourself staring at
that final wall to the top. When you hit the base of the wall having already
pushed yourself hard on the approach it can seem daunting.

Regardless, skating up the wall section w/o poles would be a great technique
drill. If you can pull that off without stalling out, your legs are doing
the right thing!

-Mitch