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#1
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white area on black base
so i have a pair of RCS classic fischers that are 2 years old. Whenever i
ski on them (after a fresh waxing mind you) i get an area of "white" developing just behind my kick zone. Obviously, it seems that this area is losing its wax and "drying out." ?? I have waxed them religiously, stored them with summer wax on, etc etc but as soon as i ski on them after waxing the white reappears. Just the other day they were freshly waxed then skied on for about an hour - boom, white area. Do these skis need to be stoneground so they'll accept wax in this area better? Do i need to saturate the base with ridiculous amounts of heating/cooling cycles? I have owned 10+ pair of Fischers and if memory serves me right it did happen with one pair of skating skis a while back too ..... but no others. any advice? JKal. |
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#2
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white area on black base
Could be kick wax creeping into the glide zone. I have a pair of Madshus
that are on the soft side and this happens quite often with them. late kick is also a factor. I think it's been discussed here before, do a search in google. DMK "32 degrees" wrote in message ... so i have a pair of RCS classic fischers that are 2 years old. Whenever i ski on them (after a fresh waxing mind you) i get an area of "white" developing just behind my kick zone. Obviously, it seems that this area is losing its wax and "drying out." ?? I have waxed them religiously, stored them with summer wax on, etc etc but as soon as i ski on them after waxing the white reappears. Just the other day they were freshly waxed then skied on for about an hour - boom, white area. Do these skis need to be stoneground so they'll accept wax in this area better? Do i need to saturate the base with ridiculous amounts of heating/cooling cycles? I have owned 10+ pair of Fischers and if memory serves me right it did happen with one pair of skating skis a while back too .... but no others. any advice? JKal. |
#3
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white area on black base
On Jan 29, 3:00 pm, "32 degrees" wrote:
so i have a pair of RCS classic fischers that are 2 years old. Whenever i ski on them (after a fresh waxing mind you) i get an area of "white" developing just behind my kick zone. Obviously, it seems that this area is losing its wax and "drying out." ?? It's normal thing. I don't remember I would see pair of classic skis which wouldn't do this. And in 20 years of racing (plus year or two of being serviceman for national team) I saw quite few skis I don't know what's reason, but to be honest, I was never worried about this. Just wax them next time, and you will be fine. Primoz |
#4
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white area on black base
On Jan 29, 7:34 am, wrote:
On Jan 29, 3:00 pm, "32 degrees" wrote: so i have a pair of RCS classic fischers that are 2 years old. Whenever i ski on them (after a fresh waxing mind you) i get an area of "white" developing just behind my kick zone. Obviously, it seems that this area is losing its wax and "drying out." ?? It's normal thing. I don't remember I would see pair of classic skis which wouldn't do this. And in 20 years of racing (plus year or two of being serviceman for national team) I saw quite few skis I don't know what's reason, but to be honest, I was never worried about this. Just wax them next time, and you will be fine. Primoz I have the same experience and have been told the same by ski shops. I don't believe it's wax worn off, but more that its coming to the surface. My strategy is to take a brush and brush it. It usually brushes out and looks and skis great. |
#5
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white area on black base
According to two independent Swedish research groups, stonegrinding
tear up small "hairs" from the base, shown in the first microscope picture of this TV clip: http://svt.se/svt/road/Classic/share...043760&d=85795 Waxing helps giving a smoother surface as seen in the second microscope picture in the TV clip, and my guess is that what happens when you're skiing is that as wax wears off, the "hairs" become visible again, giving "grey surfaces" and more friction. The third microscope picture in the TV clip shows the result of preparing the gliding surface with a steel scraper instead of stone grinding, in order to get a surface that is even smoother than the waxed surface. (To be precise, the steel scraper shown in the TV clip seems to be the one sold at http://www.kuzmin.nu but professor Hogmark said in a recent radio inteview that his group was inspired by Kuzmin's ideas but has developed their own tools, so the steel scraper shown is probably not the one responsible for the very smooth surface in the last microscope picture.) According to professor Hogmark, in cold enough weather for dry friction between the ski base and the snow, tribological laws tell that the smoother surface you have, the better glide you get, so that the skis in the third microscope picture should glide even faster than stone grinded and waxed skis in cold weather. For temperatures closer to 0 degrees C, you'd need to use a riller to add some structure into the smooth surface. The best result I know of from a skier skiing on such skis (no gliding wax and steel scraping instead of stone grinding) is 39th place in Vasaloppet 2007, and for amateur use, steel scraping is a very simple way to get pretty good glide for, say, 500 km of skiing or so without worrying about anything related to glide wax. Some people have claimed that steel scraped skis glide even faster after glide waxing, whereas Hogmark and Kuzmin has arguments implying that the physical properties of the ski base are so good that if you only get the surface smooth enough, there should not be need for any ski wax. Stone grinding experts on their hand, use to argue that if a real expert use the best machine on the market they can obtain better results (and still with some requirements on the ski owner to be good at waxing and all the usual initial preparations that you're required to do immediately after having your skis stone grinded). This is still research in progress and the skiing community is full of people having very strong opinions about what "religion" they subscribe to, so there are probably no simple truths about what gives the absolute glide for some given temperature and snow conditions, but I figured that there might be people here too interested in knowing that there are much simpler alternatives to traditional stone grinding and (loads and loads and loads of) waxing. So for anyone more interested in skiing than in waxing the future looks bright. =) And all others can of course continue with what they have done before. =) Time is running out. Gotta sleep... / Niklas On Jan 29, 3:00 pm, "32 degrees" wrote: so i have a pair of RCS classic fischers that are 2 years old. Whenever i ski on them (after a fresh waxing mind you) i get an area of "white" developing just behind my kick zone. Obviously, it seems that this area is losing its wax and "drying out." ?? I have waxed them religiously, stored them with summer wax on, etc etc but as soon as i ski on them after waxing the white reappears. Just the other day they were freshly waxed then skied on for about an hour - boom, white area. Do these skis need to be stoneground so they'll accept wax in this area better? Do i need to saturate the base with ridiculous amounts of heating/cooling cycles? I have owned 10+ pair of Fischers and if memory serves me right it did happen with one pair of skating skis a while back too .... but no others. any advice? JKal. |
#6
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white area on black base
On Feb 3, 11:26 am, " wrote:
According to two independent Swedish research groups, stonegrinding tear up small "hairs" from the base, shown in the first microscope picture of this TV clip:http://svt.se/svt/road/Classic/share....jsp?a=1043760... Waxing helps giving a smoother surface as seen in the second microscope picture in the TV clip, and my guess is that what happens when you're skiing is that as wax wears off, the "hairs" become visible again, giving "grey surfaces" and more friction. The third microscope picture in the TV clip shows the result of preparing the gliding surface with a steel scraper instead of stone grinding, in order to get a surface that is even smoother than the waxed surface. (To be precise, the steel scraper shown in the TV clip seems to be the one sold athttp://www.kuzmin.nubut professor Hogmark said in a recent radio inteview that his group was inspired by Kuzmin's ideas but has developed their own tools, so the steel scraper shown is probably not the one responsible for the very smooth surface in the last microscope picture.) According to professor Hogmark, in cold enough weather for dry friction between the ski base and the snow, tribological laws tell that the smoother surface you have, the better glide you get, so that the skis in the third microscope picture should glide even faster than stone grinded and waxed skis in cold weather. For temperatures closer to 0 degrees C, you'd need to use a riller to add some structure into the smooth surface. The best result I know of from a skier skiing on such skis (no gliding wax and steel scraping instead of stone grinding) is 39th place in Vasaloppet 2007, and for amateur use, steel scraping is a very simple way to get pretty good glide for, say, 500 km of skiing or so without worrying about anything related to glide wax. Some people have claimed that steel scraped skis glide even faster after glide waxing, whereas Hogmark and Kuzmin has arguments implying that the physical properties of the ski base are so good that if you only get the surface smooth enough, there should not be need for any ski wax. Stone grinding experts on their hand, use to argue that if a real expert use the best machine on the market they can obtain better results (and still with some requirements on the ski owner to be good at waxing and all the usual initial preparations that you're required to do immediately after having your skis stone grinded). This is still research in progress and the skiing community is full of people having very strong opinions about what "religion" they subscribe to, so there are probably no simple truths about what gives the absolute glide for some given temperature and snow conditions, but I figured that there might be people here too interested in knowing that there are much simpler alternatives to traditional stone grinding and (loads and loads and loads of) waxing. So for anyone more interested in skiing than in waxing the future looks bright. =) And all others can of course continue with what they have done before. =) Time is running out. Gotta sleep... / Niklas On Jan 29, 3:00 pm, "32 degrees" wrote: so i have a pair of RCS classic fischers that are 2 years old. Whenever i ski on them (after a fresh waxing mind you) i get an area of "white" developing just behind my kick zone. Obviously, it seems that this area is losing its wax and "drying out." ?? I have waxed them religiously, stored them with summer wax on, etc etc but as soon as i ski on them after waxing the white reappears. Just the other day they were freshly waxed then skied on for about an hour - boom, white area. Do these skis need to be stoneground so they'll accept wax in this area better? Do i need to saturate the base with ridiculous amounts of heating/cooling cycles? I have owned 10+ pair of Fischers and if memory serves me right it did happen with one pair of skating skis a while back too .... but no others. any advice? JKal. I don't doubt the research, but, at least in my case, it is not micro hairs from stonegrinding that cause the whiteness. It happens with old skis and new ones. Plus, when I have a fresh grind, I do what many do: carefully "shave" the skis with a broad, heavy razor or a sharp metal scraper. This is very lightly - just to remove the little hairs. Then, a few cycles of heating in hard waxes and normal scraping and brushing. Yes, you can see results, not only in the hairs that are scraped off, but in nearly immediate speed with the freshly ground skis. It is very common knowledge that very cold conditions require an extremely fine grind, the smoother the better. I don't think that the research you mentioned has anything to do with the phenomenon discussed. It is iteresting, and important to know though. |
#7
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white area on black base
On Jan 29, 9:00*am, "32 degrees" wrote:
so i have a pair of RCS classic fischers that are 2 years old. *Whenever i ski on them (after a fresh waxing mind you) i get an area of "white" developing just behind my kick zone. *Obviously, it seems that this area is losing its wax and "drying out." ?? I have waxed them religiously, stored them with summer wax on, etc etc but as soon as i ski on them after waxing the white reappears. *Just the other day they were freshly waxed then skied on for about an hour - boom, white area. Do these skis need to be stoneground so they'll accept wax in this area better? *Do i need to saturate the base with ridiculous amounts of heating/cooling cycles? *I have owned 10+ pair of Fischers and if memory serves me right it did happen with one pair of skating skis a while back too .... but no others. any advice? JKal. Hey JK! So are the skis fast, or are they slow ? THAT is the question ! If they are fast, and have whiteness? Go with it! If they are slow and have whiteness, there is always ebay! VASA TIME! See you there ? |
#8
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white area on black base
hey dell, they are pretty fast.
so, actually i'm just wondering what it is .. after reading everything i believe the "white spot" is a buildup of kick wax that has rubbed off and is redeposited right behind the kick zone. JKal. "delltodd" wrote in message ... On Jan 29, 9:00 am, "32 degrees" wrote: so i have a pair of RCS classic fischers that are 2 years old. Whenever i ski on them (after a fresh waxing mind you) i get an area of "white" developing just behind my kick zone. Obviously, it seems that this area is losing its wax and "drying out." ?? I have waxed them religiously, stored them with summer wax on, etc etc but as soon as i ski on them after waxing the white reappears. Just the other day they were freshly waxed then skied on for about an hour - boom, white area. Do these skis need to be stoneground so they'll accept wax in this area better? Do i need to saturate the base with ridiculous amounts of heating/cooling cycles? I have owned 10+ pair of Fischers and if memory serves me right it did happen with one pair of skating skis a while back too .... but no others. any advice? JKal. Hey JK! So are the skis fast, or are they slow ? THAT is the question ! If they are fast, and have whiteness? Go with it! If they are slow and have whiteness, there is always ebay! VASA TIME! See you there ? |
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