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#1
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depressed? buy new skis !! need advice...
I'm so depressed I'm missing the Noquemanon I'm going to buy some new skis.
I only have one pair of beat up classic skis (fischer circa 1998) and I need some new ones.... Should I get the ROSSIGNOL's or FISCHERS ?????? I've read A LOT of good things about rossi classic skis - easy to hit wax pocket, fast, and "big guns" use 'em. But, I'm very partial to Fischer - never had a bad pair (slows pair) after 9 pairs purchased (mainly all skate though.) ANY ADVICE?????? Objective advice. I hate Atomic, don't even bother saying it. JK |
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#2
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"I'm so depressed I'm missing the Noquemanon..."
Pneumonia in Gaylord ?! CRAP Well that's no better than pneumonia in TC. (someday we'll actually meet at a race & it will click) Hey ever heard of grandparents ! C'mon ! That's what God put them HERE for ! I think I dodged a similar bullet w/ 6yr old having flu 1 wk ago 4yr old having it 2 nites ago...I THINK I'm OK... I got Atomic Beta's from Uncle Dick there in town and they are worth mentioning ! About 3 yrs old. It took me and Telewacker both about 2 years to the point of nearly selling them before they started to come alive for both of us, and now both us like them a lot. Interesting this: we both got them stoneground, and then we both liked them a lot better (LJ03 for me. Zach Caldwell said of the factory grind that it had the most opportunity for improvement of them all). Here is the noteable thing - the ride is so damped you swear you are creeping along, like tonite ! But then you look over at the trees whipping by & you see that you are going along well. So it's decieving about the speed on these atomics (again 3 yrs old or 4 simply "beta" not beta race 9 or any or beta modifier). My RCS's feel really fast, kind of nervous really. I have waxed them both in the same & timed them on a 1k loop back to back to back to back...and I have found that the RCS's ARE faster by about 3 - 5 seconds / k on average. There is a price for that, which is much less control. I tend to yardsale often on the RCS's whereas the atomics feel much more stable. Also LJ03 grind on the RCS's BTW. I'm bringing them both because I CANNOT decide which way to go. My atomics have the traditional bridge, the fischers have the new school hinged bridge, same pocket for hardwax or klister. I've heard 2nd hand that the rossi's have the same thing. My atomics tend to wear the front and back of the wax pocket off, and the klister pocket is not that much shorter. But the klister pocket does ride off the snow nicely so they are fast klister skis, but the fischer bridge keeps the klister off the snow too. Despite all that each is very different from the other. For a long time I didn't think I was heavy enough for the atomic, but now that I can weight shift, I can hook it up. Here's a bottom line: the Fischer RCS Classic is a demanding ski, difficult to stay on top of, not in the least forgiving either on downhills, nor of incomplete weight transfer (like when yer lookin' for the finish line) yet it's rewarding like a racing ski should be. The atomic is almost as fast, & probably faster if you factor out wipeouts, and feels very confidence inspiring, and is pretty easy to kick, and is forgiving of incomplete weight shift. Hm, tough choice ! We'll miss ya this wknd JK. |
#3
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delltodd wrote: (...) There is a price for that, which is much less control. I tend to yardsale often on the RCS's whereas the atomics feel much more stable. Hey thanks for the new word:-) "To be classified as a yard sale, a crash must result in loss of skis, poles, goggles, and - in severe cases - hat and gloves." I=B4m curious, though. I know from bitter experience that a pair of really good top of the top line skis can be too good for you, if your technique isn=B4t perfect enough or your kick snappy and powerful enough either on average or until the finish line - but my limited experience doesn=B4t easily offer an explanation why such a pair should or could be less stable downhill (to the extent that it results in more and/or worse crashes or even "near-misses"). Aart from the fact that you=B4d perhaps be going faster downhill on such a pair and approaching the limit of your motorical skills:-) (Note that I don=B4t doubt your experience at all, I=B4m just wondering about an explanation for it.) Anders |
#4
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Anders...
Hey thanks for the new word:-) "To be classified as a yard sale, a crash must result in loss of skis, poles, goggles, and - in severe cases - hat and gloves." Sounds like you've yardsaled too ! Boy haven't we all. Perhaps in the future we will say that we've Newelled ! I bet even Tobias Freidrickssen felt bad for Newell wiping out with 11 meters left in the sprint final on Wednesday. I=B4m curious, though. I know from bitter experience that a pair of really good top of the top line skis can be too good for you, if your technique isn=B4t perfect enough or your kick snappy and powerful enough either on average or until the finish line - Precisely, those Fischers are like 100 compression golf balls if you know what I mean ! Those feel sweet when you are on your A-game, and feel like rocks otherwise. These skis are definitely too good for me in exactly the ways you describe. but my limited experience doesn=B4t easily offer an explanation why such a pair should or could be less stable downhill (to the extent that it results in more and/or worse crashes or even "near-misses"). By contrast to the atomics, the RCS's are narrower overall. This may have something to do with it. (???) Aart from the fact that you=B4d perhaps be going faster downhill on such a pair and approaching the limit of your motorical skills:-) Thanks for the new word ! I definitely approach the limit of my motorical skills on the RCS's ! |
#5
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I just picked up a new pair of Atomic RC11's and I love them. I bought
them because I have stability problems on fast, twisty downhills and I find they are like riding my skate skis or alpine skis, compared to Madshus and Fischers. I managed to pull a slalom turn at high speed down Penguin hill in Gatineau park where I would have been in the bush on my Madshus, or even on my Fischer skate skis. Also, they are lighter and a few cm shorter than the equivalent RCS skis I would have bought. Haven't had a chance to really assess the speed, but falling and landing on your poles tends to lose a bit more time than a few seconds per km. I wouldn't even think of using my old Madshus on a technical course any more now that I have the Atomics, but if it was a flattish course with lots of dp than I would use my older, longer skis. Lighter and shorter really helps going up short steep hills, I've noticed. I bought a pair of RS11s and RC11s this year, and the only thing I noticed is that the bases looked rather dried out (white areas) when I bought them, compared to the bases of the other brands. Chris |
#6
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32 degrees wrote:
I hate Atomic, don't even bother saying it. JK Hi, Just wondering why you "hate Atomic". I have Fisher and Atomic skis and my new Atomic RC10s work just fine. Edgar |
#7
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I wish I could try more skis. The differences sound like fun to
explore. The control stories you guys tell remind me of the famous one (that I probably read here) where the top Euro dude at the Birkie is prepping his skis. He's metal-scraping away his grooves, leaving a plain flat base, and a citizen skier asks him if they're faster that way. He says something like "Yes, for me they're faster. For you, you'd end up in the bushes." That's the kind of skis I want! : ) Too much ski! THAT'S WHAT I WANT! : ) What I'd give for that. What I'd give for a real downhill. Oh yeah, bring em on!!! We had some decent downhills on courses here in Michigan in the early 80's before liability concerns. The Corkscrew trail at Forbush was jim-dandy. (Or whatever it was called: the name fit the trail: no longer!) Some Stokely trails come close---less lawsuit worries up there. But you need to run 'em backwards. Doing King Mt. backwards on an icy day is JUST THE TICKET. Doing that first long multi-pitch downhill on the Oly Trials trail at the Soo Finn club when it's icy is a proper downhill, too, giving air on a pitch-change halfway down. Oh yeah! Combine that with crazy skis and you'd have some real fun! (Where's enough wood for me to knock on around here...?) My bro and I are going to a local public trail soon and will be adding a teeny little nifty new downhill section. There's a nice big valley view that hasn't been exploited yet. We'll go out with a little handsaw and loppers and find a route that only takes a little cleaning and deadwood-pulling. We'll give this town a proper downhill (and uphill return) for those interested. Mum's the word! New Paradigm lives! |
#8
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"cpella" wrote in message oups.com... I just picked up a new pair of Atomic RC11's and I love them. I bought them because I have stability problems on fast, twisty downhills and I find they are like riding my skate skis or alpine skis, compared to Madshus and Fischers. I I just want to pipe in and say I've experienced the same thing on my RC11's Really Super down hill control. The atomics actually feel better (as skis) than the skate skis going around corners at speed. The overall control might be better with the skating package because of the boots. But for the first time on striding equipment, I almost feel bullet proof going downhill around corners. Really, really fun and not a subtle difference. I'm an alpine skier for over 40 years, XC tourer and telemarker for 30 years, groomed track striding and skating only for past 7 years or so, and was once a competent Alpine skier and telemarker. I say this because unlike a LOT of XC skiers (who are overall much faster than me, so I'm not putting them down), I love the downhill parts and try to milk as much speed as my aging legs and fitness will allow. I push as hard as I can going down hill as opposed to a lot of skiers who try to survive. So I speak with - if not authority - at least as one who kind of knows down hill performance and loves good performance (again, given that I'm old and weak). I also think my new Atomic RC11s climb a little better than my Madshus, it's easier to get good kick. Could be a slight flex/camber issue, just a little. Just straight on downhill glide, the Madshus almost always out-glide my new RC-11s, but not a huge amount. I attribute this difference to: the Madshus have been waxed 1 zillion times and their structure might be a little more optimal for our typical conditions (cold and dry). The RC-11's have improved greatly with waxing and skiing and the difference could be moot now (haven't done side by side for a few weeks). But the better climbing and more sure downhill performance more than make up for it. But as my kid said when young: "Evewybody's differewent". So YMMV! Of course! |
#9
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"Camilo"wrote: I just want to pipe in and say I've experienced the same thing on my RC11's Really Super down hill control. The atomics actually feel better (as skis) than the skate skis going around corners at speed. The overall control might be better with the skating package because of the boots. But for the first time on striding equipment, I almost feel bullet proof going downhill around corners. Really, really fun and not a subtle difference. I have to third this about the Atomics, both classic and skate. I have Beta Race Classics, RS:11 and RC:11. They are definitely a lot more secure and FUN! going down hills than my other skis. I'm going to look into getting a good grind on the newer two though. My RS:11s feel really fast in some conditions, but they were absolute dogs in the Tour of Anchorage 50k last year with temps in the 20s F. Trains of people were whipping by and disappearing in front of my on the downhills. I ended up skiing my 2nd slowest skate 50K race ever despite being in decent shape. I have skied the race faster when I really didn't know how to skate at all. I'm thinking it was the grind (and maybe my wax job too), not the flex, because they are sometimes fast and since someone mentioned that Zach Caldwell doesn't like the stock grind much. |
#10
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On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, Anders wrote: I=B4m curious, though. I know from bitter experience that a pair of really good top of the top line skis can be too good for you, if your technique isn=B4t perfect enough or your kick snappy and powerful enough either on average or until the finish line - but my limited experience doesn=B4t easily offer an explanation why such a pair should or could be less stable downhill (to the extent that it results in more and/or worse crashes or even "near-misses"). I have a pair of classic skis that was just like this when it was new. I had a hard time getting them to kick well and they were terrifying on the downhills. I found gaining 10 pounds helps quite a bit here. :-) (Actually, for the record I gained 20 and then lost 10. Still trying to drop the other 10.) The other thing that helped a LOT was a lot of technique improvement. For me, classic rollerskiing in low classic boots made a big improvement in my technique. I understand this doesn't work for everyone. For downhill control, I've found it helps a lot to use high boots, either a combi boot or a skating boot with a reasonably flexible sole that you can stride in. I still to this day choose boots to match the conditions. -Mitch |
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