hip shrug

Hi,

A question to all you technique buffs and coaches out there. How does
somebody get rid of, for lack of better terms, a hip shrug when they are
bringing up their trailing leg that they've just pushed of with during the
V-2? In other words, even though the person stands up onto the new gliding
ski, and is not skiing in the back seat, the upcoming leg's hip rises just
slightly as the leg comes under the body.

Or maybe this isn't a big deal. I see some guys do in on the World Cup
circuit as well. Seems like it's usually the taller skinnier guys from
smaller countries, but that just might be my bias. Should the trailing leg
be bent more, or earlier, during recovery? Should the gliding leg of the
V-2 be even straighter to allow the straighter trailing leg to come in with
more even/level hips?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Brian

Do you have a WC video moment or two you could refer those of us to that
don't quite have a picture of what you mean by hip shrug?

"Brian Pauley" wrote:

Hi,

A question to all you technique buffs and coaches out there. How does
somebody get rid of, for lack of better terms, a hip shrug when they are
bringing up their trailing leg that they've just pushed of with during the
V-2? In other words, even though the person stands up onto the new gliding
ski, and is not skiing in the back seat, the upcoming leg's hip rises just
slightly as the leg comes under the body.

Or maybe this isn't a big deal. I see some guys do in on the World Cup
circuit as well. Seems like it's usually the taller skinnier guys from
smaller countries, but that just might be my bias. Should the trailing leg
be bent more, or earlier, during recovery? Should the gliding leg of the
V-2 be even straighter to allow the straighter trailing leg to come in with
more even/level hips?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Brian

Not readily available. The reason I came up with "shrug" is that it's
similar to when you shrug your shoulder. In this case, shrugging one
and not the other.





On Jan 15, 9:48*pm, wrote:
Do you have a WC video moment or two you could refer those of us to that
don't quite have a picture of what you mean by hip shrug?



"Brian Pauley" wrote:
Hi,

A question to all you technique buffs and coaches out there. *How does
somebody get rid of, for lack of better terms, a hip shrug when they are
bringing up their trailing leg that they've just pushed of with during the
V-2? *In other words, even though the person stands up onto the new gliding
ski, and is not skiing in the back seat, the upcoming leg's hip rises just
slightly as the leg comes under the body.

Or maybe this isn't a big deal. *I see some guys do in on the World Cup
circuit as well. *Seems like it's usually the taller skinnier guys from
smaller countries, but that just might be my bias. *Should the trailing leg
be bent more, or earlier, during recovery? *Should the gliding leg of the
V-2 be even straighter to allow the straighter trailing leg to come in with
more even/level hips?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Brian- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No shrug needed. Or, to put it differently, properly done it's a
combination of the arms and upper torso (abs, chest, shoulders, lats as
one), and the ankles (and knees) partly unflexing, not the hips
independently rising themselves. A good way to get a sense of how this
works is to stand in a ski position, then raise the upper torso and
arms as if you had poles in hand and were going to double pole. Your
hips should naturally rise as a result (and ankles and knees unflex a
bit, while keeping a little flex). V2 is just a series of one-legged
double poles synchronized with glide in between. Hope that helps.

RM

docbyro wrote:

Not readily available. The reason I came up with "shrug" is that it's
similar to when you shrug your shoulder. In this case, shrugging one
and not the other.





On Jan 15, 9:48*pm, wrote:
Do you have a WC video moment or two you could refer those of us to that
don't quite have a picture of what you mean by hip shrug?



"Brian Pauley" wrote:
Hi,

A question to all you technique buffs and coaches out there. *How does
somebody get rid of, for lack of better terms, a hip shrug when they are
bringing up their trailing leg that they've just pushed of with during the
V-2? *In other words, even though the person stands up onto the new gliding
ski, and is not skiing in the back seat, the upcoming leg's hip rises just
slightly as the leg comes under the body.

Or maybe this isn't a big deal. *I see some guys do in on the World Cup
circuit as well. *Seems like it's usually the taller skinnier guys from
smaller countries, but that just might be my bias. *Should the trailing leg
be bent more, or earlier, during recovery? *Should the gliding leg of the
V-2 be even straighter to allow the straighter trailing leg to come in with
more even/level hips?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Brian- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's put very well.

It's the "hips should naturally rise" together that I'm questioning.
As you say, on the gliding ski, the knee and ankle unflex a little
while remaining a little flex. If your unweighted leg that just
pushed off is straight, it is essentially longer than your gliding
leg. To get it back under the body, you need to reflex it at the knee
and ankle so it fits under you. What I seem to see in some skiers is
that they lift the hip to make room for the longer, unweighted leg in
order to get it back under them.

I'm just wondering if this is a technique flaw that should be
addressed? Or just a technique characteristic that some people do
this more than others.






On Jan 16, 12:35*pm, wrote:
No shrug needed. *Or, to put it differently, properly done it's a
combination of the arms and upper torso (abs, chest, shoulders, lats as
one), and the ankles (and knees) partly unflexing, not the hips
independently rising themselves. A good way to get a sense of how this
works is to stand in a ski position, then raise the upper torso and
arms as if you had poles in hand and were going to double pole. Your
hips should naturally rise as a result (and ankles and knees unflex a
bit, while keeping a little flex). V2 is just a series of one-legged
double poles synchronized with glide in between. Hope that helps.

RM



docbyro wrote:
Not readily available. *The reason I came up with "shrug" is that it's
similar to when you shrug your shoulder. *In this case, shrugging one
and not the other.

On Jan 15, 9:48*pm, wrote:
Do you have a WC video moment or two you could refer those of us to that
don't quite have a picture of what you mean by hip shrug?

"Brian Pauley" wrote:
Hi,

A question to all you technique buffs and coaches out there. *How does
somebody get rid of, for lack of better terms, a hip shrug when they are
bringing up their trailing leg that they've just pushed of with during the
V-2? *In other words, even though the person stands up onto the new gliding
ski, and is not skiing in the back seat, the upcoming leg's hip rises just
slightly as the leg comes under the body.

Or maybe this isn't a big deal. *I see some guys do in on the World Cup
circuit as well. *Seems like it's usually the taller skinnier guys from
smaller countries, but that just might be my bias. *Should the trailing leg
be bent more, or earlier, during recovery? *Should the gliding leg of the
V-2 be even straighter to allow the straighter trailing leg to come in with
more even/level hips?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Brian- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good question. If you are able to get a good stable glide position
over the ski, then the ankle and knee of the extended leg will flex
enough to clear the snow as it swings over, just as the hips rise for
the next double pole. If you're not getting that stable position and
sufficient glide, then there's a tendency to compensate by lifts and
such (don't assume all WC skiers have great technique).

There are little tricks to help this process of shifting weight,
assuming one already has good body position and reasonable ability to
get from ski to ski. For example, a cue I learned from a top PSIA
instructor and some years later again from a US national team coach, is
as you rise up for the V2 double pole start to turn the outside hip
toward the next glide ski (i.e., gliding on the right leg, turn the
right hip toward the left). This can also be done by turning the inside
of the thigh, which is what I was taught first and tend to prefer. The
seemingly paradoxical effect of the turn is to help better gather one's
weight over the current glide ski, which extends the glide and allows
the other leg more time to swing under. All of which sets up a stronger
poling and move to the next glide ski. This cue is especially helpful on
uphills, where full weight shift is harder to come by. With V1, when
the hill steepens it's very effective for maintaining a steady rhythm
and thus momentum (I suggest having some cue to draw on for steeper V1
uphills, especially for when one gets tired). It can also be used with
V2-alt (open field) and free skating, and is a good exercise for
rollerski practice.

rm

docbyro wrote:

That's put very well.

It's the "hips should naturally rise" together that I'm questioning.
As you say, on the gliding ski, the knee and ankle unflex a little
while remaining a little flex. If your unweighted leg that just
pushed off is straight, it is essentially longer than your gliding
leg. To get it back under the body, you need to reflex it at the knee
and ankle so it fits under you. What I seem to see in some skiers is
that they lift the hip to make room for the longer, unweighted leg in
order to get it back under them.

I'm just wondering if this is a technique flaw that should be
addressed? Or just a technique characteristic that some people do
this more than others.






On Jan 16, 12:35*pm, wrote:
No shrug needed. *Or, to put it differently, properly done it's a
combination of the arms and upper torso (abs, chest, shoulders, lats as
one), and the ankles (and knees) partly unflexing, not the hips
independently rising themselves. A good way to get a sense of how this
works is to stand in a ski position, then raise the upper torso and
arms as if you had poles in hand and were going to double pole. Your
hips should naturally rise as a result (and ankles and knees unflex a
bit, while keeping a little flex). V2 is just a series of one-legged
double poles synchronized with glide in between. Hope that helps.

RM



docbyro wrote:
Not readily available. *The reason I came up with "shrug" is that it's
similar to when you shrug your shoulder. *In this case, shrugging one
and not the other.

On Jan 15, 9:48*pm, wrote:
Do you have a WC video moment or two you could refer those of us to that
don't quite have a picture of what you mean by hip shrug?

"Brian Pauley" wrote:
Hi,

A question to all you technique buffs and coaches out there. *How does
somebody get rid of, for lack of better terms, a hip shrug when they are
bringing up their trailing leg that they've just pushed of with during the
V-2? *In other words, even though the person stands up onto the new gliding
ski, and is not skiing in the back seat, the upcoming leg's hip rises just
slightly as the leg comes under the body.

Or maybe this isn't a big deal. *I see some guys do in on the World Cup
circuit as well. *Seems like it's usually the taller skinnier guys from
smaller countries, but that just might be my bias. *Should the trailing leg
be bent more, or earlier, during recovery? *Should the gliding leg of the
V-2 be even straighter to allow the straighter trailing leg to come in with
more even/level hips?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Brian- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jan 16, 6:53 pm, wrote:
Good question. If you are able to get a good stable glide position
over the ski, then the ankle and knee of the extended leg will flex
enough to clear the snow as it swings over, just as the hips rise for
the next double pole. If you're not getting that stable position and
sufficient glide, then there's a tendency to compensate by lifts and
such (don't assume all WC skiers have great technique).

There are little tricks to help this process of shifting weight,
assuming one already has good body position and reasonable ability to
get from ski to ski. For example, a cue I learned from a top PSIA
instructor and some years later again from a US national team coach, is
as you rise up for the V2 double pole start to turn the outside hip
toward the next glide ski (i.e., gliding on the right leg, turn the
right hip toward the left). This can also be done by turning the inside
of the thigh, which is what I was taught first and tend to prefer. The
seemingly paradoxical effect of the turn is to help better gather one's
weight over the current glide ski, which extends the glide and allows
the other leg more time to swing under. All of which sets up a stronger
poling and move to the next glide ski. This cue is especially helpful on
uphills, where full weight shift is harder to come by. With V1, when
the hill steepens it's very effective for maintaining a steady rhythm
and thus momentum (I suggest having some cue to draw on for steeper V1
uphills, especially for when one gets tired). It can also be used with
V2-alt (open field) and free skating, and is a good exercise for
rollerski practice.

rm

docbyro wrote:
That's put very well.

It's the "hips should naturally rise" together that I'm questioning.
As you say, on the gliding ski, the knee and ankle unflex a little
while remaining a little flex. If your unweighted leg that just
pushed off is straight, it is essentially longer than your gliding
leg. To get it back under the body, you need to reflex it at the knee
and ankle so it fits under you. What I seem to see in some skiers is
that they lift the hip to make room for the longer, unweighted leg in
order to get it back under them.

I'm just wondering if this is a technique flaw that should be
addressed? Or just a technique characteristic that some people do
this more than others.

On Jan 16, 12:35 pm, wrote:
No shrug needed. Or, to put it differently, properly done it's a
combination of the arms and upper torso (abs, chest, shoulders, lats as
one), and the ankles (and knees) partly unflexing, not the hips
independently rising themselves. A good way to get a sense of how this
works is to stand in a ski position, then raise the upper torso and
arms as if you had poles in hand and were going to double pole. Your
hips should naturally rise as a result (and ankles and knees unflex a
bit, while keeping a little flex). V2 is just a series of one-legged
double poles synchronized with glide in between. Hope that helps.

RM

docbyro wrote:
Not readily available. The reason I came up with "shrug" is that it's
similar to when you shrug your shoulder. In this case, shrugging one
and not the other.

On Jan 15, 9:48 pm, wrote:
Do you have a WC video moment or two you could refer those of us to that
don't quite have a picture of what you mean by hip shrug?

"Brian Pauley" wrote:
Hi,

A question to all you technique buffs and coaches out there. How does
somebody get rid of, for lack of better terms, a hip shrug when they are
bringing up their trailing leg that they've just pushed of with during the
V-2? In other words, even though the person stands up onto the new gliding
ski, and is not skiing in the back seat, the upcoming leg's hip rises just
slightly as the leg comes under the body.

Or maybe this isn't a big deal. I see some guys do in on the World Cup
circuit as well. Seems like it's usually the taller skinnier guys from
smaller countries, but that just might be my bias. Should the trailing leg
be bent more, or earlier, during recovery? Should the gliding leg of the
V-2 be even straighter to allow the straighter trailing leg to come in with
more even/level hips?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Brian- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Drill: V2 up as steep a hill as you are comfortable skiing. The hill
forces efficiency. Video yourself first on the flats and then on the
hill during the drill. What do you see?