Kick zone lengths

I just received a pair of Fischer RCS cold classic skis (207) to try out
that have hardwax kick zones that are 5.5 cm (over 2") different in
length (about 56 vs 61.5 cm from .20 to .1). These were marked the way
Zach does, i.e., .1,.2,.3mm pts. While I know that pairs are rarely
the same and some pairs are way out there, the biggest difference I've
ever had was 3cm, and I thought that was a lot. It strikes me that
even if the half-height and closing flex are similar, and I'll assume
they are, the overall way the ski flexes lengthwise would presumably
different with a 5.5 cm difference. Of course, I'm going to try them out
(a long drive to find good snow due to warm weather), but I'm curious
what experience and thoughts others have with this issue.

Gene

Gene,

5.5 cm is a bit troubling, but I did some testing this winter with my
classic skis. I've tubbed out, so I was trying to find if one pair of
my classic skis still fit. I skied one ski from two different pair (a
Peltonen and a Fischer) on a few occasions, and it was surprising how
similar the skis felt. If the skis made it through Zach's testing, how
about email Zach and asking. I'm kind of betting it doesn't matter
much except when you're hovered over the ski waxing, but being the
perfectionist, that might bother me. Who knows, maybe my current skis
have the same problem but I don't know it.

Jay

On Feb 25, 1:34*pm, wrote:
I just received a pair of Fischer RCS cold classic skis (207) to try out
that have hardwax kick zones that are 5.5 cm (over 2") different in
length (about 56 vs 61.5 cm from .20 to .1). These were marked the way
Zach does, i.e., .1,.2,.3mm pts. *While I know that pairs are rarely
the same and some pairs are way out there, the biggest difference I've
ever had was 3cm, and I thought that was a lot. *It strikes me that
even if the half-height and closing flex are similar, and I'll assume
they are, the overall way the ski flexes lengthwise would presumably
different with a 5.5 cm difference. Of course, I'm going to try them out
(a long drive to find good snow due to warm weather), but I'm curious
what experience and thoughts others have with this issue. *

Gene

The skis are not from Zach (who btw, didn't travel to Europe), but from
one very familiar with his methods. What surprised him and me more is
that the balance pts on this "matched pair" are 1.5 cm different. In
any case, he suggested just to ignore the markings, wax them longer,
and go ski and see how they feel and wear, which is what I'm doing
today.

Even more troubling to me are the NIS bindings. For most of my skiing I
use Salomon Pilot bindings and have a 3-4mm riser under the binding on
one ski. The shop in question (by phone) sort of skimmed over the fact
that these NIS plates can't come off, something I didn't quite
realize. I'm not thrilled about the (eventual) possibility of having
the extra height of NIS plates, putting me over 1 cm total above the
riser ski, but definitely can't figure out why I would want to carry
around the extra weight of NIS plates - or why this shop would think I
would.

Gene


Jay W wrote:

Gene,

5.5 cm is a bit troubling, but I did some testing this winter with my
classic skis. I've tubbed out, so I was trying to find if one pair of
my classic skis still fit. I skied one ski from two different pair (a
Peltonen and a Fischer) on a few occasions, and it was surprising how
similar the skis felt. If the skis made it through Zach's testing, how
about email Zach and asking. I'm kind of betting it doesn't matter
much except when you're hovered over the ski waxing, but being the
perfectionist, that might bother me. Who knows, maybe my current skis
have the same problem but I don't know it.

Jay

On Feb 25, 1:34*pm, wrote:
I just received a pair of Fischer RCS cold classic skis (207) to try out
that have hardwax kick zones that are 5.5 cm (over 2") different in
length (about 56 vs 61.5 cm from .20 to .1). These were marked the way
Zach does, i.e., .1,.2,.3mm pts. *While I know that pairs are rarely
the same and some pairs are way out there, the biggest difference I've
ever had was 3cm, and I thought that was a lot. *It strikes me that
even if the half-height and closing flex are similar, and I'll assume
they are, the overall way the ski flexes lengthwise would presumably
different with a 5.5 cm difference. Of course, I'm going to try them out
(a long drive to find good snow due to warm weather), but I'm curious
what experience and thoughts others have with this issue. *

Gene

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:54:15 -0700, wrote:

Even more troubling to me are the NIS bindings. For most of my skiing I
use Salomon Pilot bindings and have a 3-4mm riser under the binding on
one ski. The shop in question (by phone) sort of skimmed over the fact
that these NIS plates can't come off, something I didn't quite
realize. I'm not thrilled about the (eventual) possibility of having
the extra height of NIS plates, putting me over 1 cm total above the
riser ski, but definitely can't figure out why I would want to carry
around the extra weight of NIS plates - or why this shop would think I
would.

I'm curious about if anyone has experience with Salomon bindings over
NIS -- how much lift does it add, etc?

THere was a brief discussion of this in the group a few years ago when
NIS had just arrived.

The NIS plates are about 3.5 mm. Zach seems to think putting a Salomon
binding over them is no big deal. In my case, it would mean one foot
is a full cm above the ski. The other issue is that those plates
weigh roughly 75g each, which seen from the standpoint of distance
racing, seems like a fairly sizeable addition to a ski that weighs
1000-1100 grams.

Gene

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:54:15 -0700, wrote:

Even more troubling to me are the NIS bindings. For most of my skiing I
use Salomon Pilot bindings and have a 3-4mm riser under the binding on
one ski. The shop in question (by phone) sort of skimmed over the fact
that these NIS plates can't come off, something I didn't quite
realize. I'm not thrilled about the (eventual) possibility of having
the extra height of NIS plates, putting me over 1 cm total above the
riser ski, but definitely can't figure out why I would want to carry
around the extra weight of NIS plates - or why this shop would think I
would.

I'm curious about if anyone has experience with Salomon bindings over
NIS -- how much lift does it add, etc?

THere was a brief discussion of this in the group a few years ago when
NIS had just arrived.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:04:32 -0700, wrote:

The other issue is that those plates
weigh roughly 75g each, which seen from the standpoint of distance
racing, seems like a fairly sizeable addition to a ski that weighs
1000-1100 grams.

But what matters is the overall weight of the ski.

I thought NIS skis lacked a reinforcement inside the ski to hold the
binding, so weight gain is much less than that, or perhaps nothing?

I don't have a scale or an NIS ski to compare but am curious about
that.

There's nothing on Fischer's site to indicate different weights. I
think the assumption is that R4 bindings will be used with NIS-plated
skis, so there's no reason for any difference in construction. The
bonding is very strong. Wish I knew of a way to undo it w/o destroying
the ski.

I skied on these things yesterday with NNN boots and they were easily
the best kicking skis I've ever used. I had on 4 layers of hard wax
extra long, no binder, and after three hours these were still kicking
like the beginning. Conditions were 8" of new powder the previous day,
so I couldn't tell for sure about glide, tho it wasn't bad. Neat thing
about these NIS bindings is that you can adjust the placement fore and
aft to find the best combo of kick and glide. Mine appears to be one
click back with this pair. It's just I really do need the riser and
Salomon boots fit my feet better than the NNN varieties. I also prefer
the two point Pilot connection, tho the NNN would do well enough.

Gene

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:04:32 -0700, wrote:

The other issue is that those plates
weigh roughly 75g each, which seen from the standpoint of distance
racing, seems like a fairly sizeable addition to a ski that weighs
1000-1100 grams.

But what matters is the overall weight of the ski.

I thought NIS skis lacked a reinforcement inside the ski to hold the
binding, so weight gain is much less than that, or perhaps nothing?

I don't have a scale or an NIS ski to compare but am curious about
that.

On Feb 28, 3:19*pm, wrote:
There's nothing on Fischer's site to indicate different weights. I
think the assumption is that R4 bindings will be used with NIS-plated
skis, so there's no reason for any difference in construction. The
bonding is very strong. Wish I knew of a way to undo it w/o destroying
the ski.

I skied on these things yesterday with NNN boots and they were easily
the best kicking skis I've ever used. *I had on 4 layers of hard wax
extra long, no binder, and after three hours these were still kicking
like the beginning. Conditions were 8" of new powder the previous day,
so I couldn't tell for sure about glide, tho it wasn't bad. *Neat thing
about these NIS bindings is that you can adjust the placement fore and
aft to find the best combo of kick and glide. *Mine appears to be one
click back with this pair. It's just I really do need the riser and
Salomon boots fit my feet better than the NNN varieties. *I also prefer
the two point Pilot connection, tho the NNN would do well enough.

Gene

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:04:32 -0700, wrote:

The other issue is that those plates
weigh roughly 75g each, which seen from the standpoint of distance
racing, seems like a fairly sizeable addition to a ski that weighs
1000-1100 grams.

But what matters is the overall weight of the ski.

I thought NIS skis lacked a reinforcement inside the ski to hold the
binding, so weight gain is much less than that, or perhaps nothing?

I don't have a scale or an NIS ski to compare but am curious about
that

You are correct that the internal mounting plate is not put into the
NIS skis. The NIS skis do weigh a couple of grams less than flat skis.
I don't know about the differences in kicking ability of skis with NIS
and those without. Fischer is the only manufacturer that makes both.
What ski were you skiing?

On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 22:38:12 -0800 (PST), wrote:

The NIS skis do weigh a couple of grams less than flat skis.

Good info.

I don't know about the differences in kicking ability of skis with NIS
and those without. Fischer is the only manufacturer that makes both.
What ski were you skiing?

I'm thinking of getting a second pair of Madshus skate skis, who no
longer make non-NIS and was just curious about weight.

Swedish TV and sports print had several features before and after
vasaloppet on the 'old guy' aged 79 who was skiing vasaloppet .... 56th
time. he said during race that he planned to finish about 7 hours. in
fact, 7:15. ) ....a time only in my dreams


Eriksson, Bengt
http://www.resultat.vasaloppet.se/vasaresult/do/se/result/searchdetail?race=0&firstName=Bengt+&lastName=Erik sson&club=&startNumberInRace=&year=2009&oid=190389 445
19001 Sälens IF Vasaloppet 07:15:43 5290


Age no.of races
Bengt Eriksson Sälen 79 56 (skis Vasaloppet no 19001)

Gunde Svahn also skiied in good timem for a youngster