Skis grip Ice TOOOO much??

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...
Al wrote:
Hey all,

I have been skiing for quite a few years and something new has
happened lately. I got my skis sharpened two weeks ago and last week
when I hit the slopes I got into trouble.

There was alot of Ice and everyone was having to deal with the
slippage. Except for me! The issue I had was when I got onto an icy
part, my skis would "cut" into the ice, pretty much preventing me from
turning! Its as if my skis would get into a groove and I had all the
trouble in the world to get out of the groove (this was on any patch
of ice, and when I finally did start to turn, the ski's would resist
the whole way..very dangerous)

Any ideas what can cause this? Is it because it was badly sharpened
or sharpened too much?

Thanks,

Al

Dull the tips about 6" back from the curve of the
shovels and about 4" back at the tails.

Common occurrence.

It may be that you are a little light
for skis you are on and can't bend them
into an arc so the tips and tails are
'catching' on the 'firm'.

The above is called 'detuning'.

Wouldn't a better solution be getting skis that he is not too light for?
Or possibly learning how to use them?

Tom wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote


It may be that you are a little light
for skis you are on and can't bend them
into an arc so the tips and tails are
'catching' on the 'firm'.


Wouldn't a better solution be getting skis that he is not too light for?

If that's actually the problem, then yes. Somehow, I doubt that it is.
There just aren't that many skis that are that stiff, and those that own
'em know what they are.

There also aren't that many adults who are that light, but now I'm
starting to intrude on Horvie's turf.


//Walt

Tom wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote in message
...
Al wrote:
Hey all,

I have been skiing for quite a few years and something new has
happened lately. I got my skis sharpened two weeks ago and last week
when I hit the slopes I got into trouble.

There was alot of Ice and everyone was having to deal with the
slippage. Except for me! The issue I had was when I got onto an icy
part, my skis would "cut" into the ice, pretty much preventing me from
turning! Its as if my skis would get into a groove and I had all the
trouble in the world to get out of the groove (this was on any patch
of ice, and when I finally did start to turn, the ski's would resist
the whole way..very dangerous)

Any ideas what can cause this? Is it because it was badly sharpened
or sharpened too much?

Thanks,

Al
Dull the tips about 6" back from the curve of the
shovels and about 4" back at the tails.

Common occurrence.

It may be that you are a little light
for skis you are on and can't bend them
into an arc so the tips and tails are
'catching' on the 'firm'.

The above is called 'detuning'.

Wouldn't a better solution be getting skis that he is not too light for?
Or possibly learning how to use them?


Well yes, which is one reason that I and
many other here say Demo, Demo, Demo when
the question arises, "What skis should I buy??

In Al's case he already has the skis, and I
have no idea at all that he is or is not
a lightweight (SLF?). Besides, he asked us
what he could do. I suggested a remedy,
which was the same as many other people's
remedies. I also planted the seed that maybe
the skis were too stiff.

Way back when I restarted my skiing career
I lucked into a pair of skis that got me
on the right track and were perhaps another
cog in the development of modern skis.

In the beginning, the only way to get skis
to be stiff torsionally was to make them
stiff longitudinally. Skis that were good
on ice because the tips didn't flex torsionally
were ungodly stiff and hard to ski on, demanding
and unforgiving.

The skis I got were Dynastar Omesoft which were
Very soft longitudinally and reasonably stiff
torsionally.

This is the secret of making modern skis which
have wide shovels and tail or are just plain
wide. With older manufacturing techniques,
the wider the ski got the more the torsional
flexibility made handling on ice a problem
unless the ski was very stiff longitudinally.

Powder skis from back then were OK but were
bloody awful on ice. LAL, have you taken
your Miller Softs out on a day like we had
over New Years?

Nowadays, powder skis are even wider than
they were back then but are acceptable on
ice and frozen granular conditions.

So what has happened in skiing that may make
detuning obsolete once you get a ski that is
matched to your height, weight and ability?

Well, one thing is you get shorter skis.
Remember the old ones? My favorites in 1964
were 215cm long. My Metrons are 172cm and
those are 5cm longer than the store recommended.

I have a pair of what I call "fun" skis. They
are 159cm long. These are a little squirrelly
at the speeds I ride the Metrons. They are
a little flexy torsionally so don't do well
on ice, but soft bumps and spring skiing they
can't be beat. The Metrons will fry my legs
in half a day in those condtions.

So now you have shorter skis. My 215's of the
60's probably had an effective running surface
of 200cm. Detuning 6" in front and 4" in back
deducts about 25 cm from the ice-effective edge.

Guess what's left over. 175cm. About the same
as the length of my Metrons. This is sort of the
process I went through to come to the conclusion
that maybe detuning shouldn't be done on
modern skis as long as they fit you for size
and ability.

As for yesterday. My first few runs were on
virgin, refrozen corduroy. Good for 60 mph
even for an old duffer like me. It's so fun,
but if the skis don't grip, you're screwed.
My skis had a fresh tune with no detune.
Perfect.

Tom, thank you for the question. It lets me
talk about skiing, the subject I love most.

MoonMan wrote:


You still detune modern skis?

Carry a small whetstone and de-tune on the slopes, sneaking up on what
feels "perfect" rather than just haphazardly detune "x inches."

Walt wrote:
Tom wrote:
--

Chris *:-)
"VtSkier" wrote


It may be that you are a little light
for skis you are on and can't bend them
into an arc so the tips and tails are
'catching' on the 'firm'.


Wouldn't a better solution be getting skis that he is not too light
for?

If that's actually the problem, then yes. Somehow, I doubt that it is.
There just aren't that many skis that are that stiff, and those that
own 'em know what they are.

Those of us who do ski on stiff skis do winge when using softer ones which
wash out instead of gripping properly

lal_truckee wrote:
MoonMan wrote:


You still detune modern skis?

Carry a small whetstone and de-tune on the slopes, sneaking up on what
feels "perfect" rather than just haphazardly detune "x inches."

I carry a small ceramic sharpener and when the edges start to go I make sure
they're sharp from tip to tail

the worst is a bur under your foot that can make the skis really overturn.


--

Chris *:-)

In article ,
A mighty Hungarian wrote:

On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 02:36:58 -0800 (PST), Trekman
wrote this crap:


'catching' on the 'firm'.

The above is called 'detuning'.

Absolutely agree with VT Skier - detuning is essential no matter your
technique.

You don't know much about swords.

Think of detuning a ski as the "Ricasso" of the sword.

Dave

Trekman wrote:
On Feb 18, 6:56 pm, VtSkier wrote:

The above is called 'detuning'.

Absolutely agree with VT Skier - detuning is essential no matter your
technique.

Horse hockey.

The ski techs at my hill don't detune unless you ask them to. And then
they snicker to themselves about the gapper in the shop who wants his
edges wrecked.

It's like going to a restaurant and ordering your steak "well done".


//Walt

On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:06:14 -1000, Dave Cartman
wrote this crap:


You don't know much about swords.

Think of detuning a ski as the "Ricasso" of the sword.

There's no hilt on skis.




A mighty Hungarian warrior
The blood of Attila runs through me

On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:22:52 -0500, "Tom" wrote this
crap:


Wouldn't a better solution be getting skis that he is not too light for?


Possibly cafeteria trays?




A mighty Hungarian warrior
The blood of Attila runs through me