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ObSki: another run with flatboarding



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 9th 07, 08:23 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
lal_truckee
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Posts: 1,348
Default ObSki: another run with flatboarding

taichiskiing wrote:

washout by new progress/technique


Glad you didn't include "new equipment"
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  #12  
Old May 10th 07, 02:49 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Wayne Decker
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Posts: 72
Default ObSki: another run with flatboarding

Idonno, As I watched you can see that he is doing some pivoting. He is
forward. He is pulling back on the inside ski an inch or 2. (watch the legs
separate and change places) He is actively flexing his skis so that they
deform or "bow" and engage the snow with edges. He isn't bothering with
poles--(I often don't both with them either when I'm cruising.) He is
keeping his upper body still for balance--sticking out his arms help balance
and keeps one from dropping them behind and letting them pull you of balance
or counter rotating his shoulders to keep them across the fall line--or at
least letting his lower body steer independently of his upper body( compare
the knees to the shoulders). All in all, it is solid technique. If he
likes to think that he is keeping his skis flat and not transitioning from
edge to edge, let him. (He is though, if you look closely).And if he finds
his description helps communicate the sport to others, where's harm?

PS. we are still skiing in the Eastern Sierra even though it has been a
relatively low snow year for us. The lower mountain has shut down however
(Little Eagle and Canyon Lodge) Everything is out of Main Lodge.

"lal_truckee" wrote in message
. ..
taichiskiing wrote:

washout by new progress/technique


Glad you didn't include "new equipment"




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  #13  
Old May 11th 07, 05:28 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Evojeesus
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Posts: 261
Default ObSki: another run with flatboarding

On May 9, 6:32 pm, taichiskiing
wrote:

Well, maybe you should really look into to ski free handed, so you
don't get washout by new progress/technique. Free your hands to free
you body, free your body to free your mind, Taichi Skiing reaches the
soul of skiing.


Have you got any footage from off-piste? I'd be curious to see how you
negotiate powder, packed powder, the varieties of windpack and crud
without poles. Do you ever ski anything seriously steep like couloirs
that are sometimes nastily hard/icy? I fail to see how not having
poles is increasing my options in dealing with difficult situations.
Hell, can anyone name even one great freerider who decided that poles
are a hindrance? Show me the footage please.

  #14  
Old May 11th 07, 07:10 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
taichiskiing
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Posts: 1,256
Default ObSki: another run with flatboarding

On May 9, 7:49 pm, "Wayne Decker" wrote:

Excellent observation.

Idonno, As I watched you can see that he is doing some pivoting. He is
forward. He is pulling back on the inside ski an inch or 2. (watch the legs
separate and change places)


Classic "foot-shuffling," foot shuffling to "seek" a better balance
while change the "configuration" of the two skis for the coming turn/
line, without disturbing/upsetting the travel/movements of the body/
CM.

He is actively flexing his skis so that they
deform or "bow" and engage the snow with edges. He isn't bothering with
poles--(I often don't both with them either when I'm cruising.)


Flatboarding skis/maneuvers with the "bow" of the skis. So poles are
optional.

He is
keeping his upper body still for balance--sticking out his arms help balance
and keeps one from dropping them behind and letting them pull you of balance
or counter rotating his shoulders to keep them across the fall line--or at
least letting his lower body steer independently of his upper body( compare
the knees to the shoulders).


Flatboarding utilizes only two kind of turns, long turns and short
turns; long turns for carving and short turns for swinging, all
initiated by rotating the hips to face the new direction while
maintain the direction of the skis (i.e. the skis are not pivoted), so
when the edges/skis do get released, the body already facing the
proper direction and traveling on it. Yes, the lower body steers
independently of the upper body, i.e. separation of upper body and
lower body, is the key.

All in all, it is solid technique. If he
likes to think that he is keeping his skis flat and not transitioning from
edge to edge, let him. (He is though, if you look closely).And if he finds
his description helps communicate the sport to others, where's harm?


No, not for communication, flatboarding is definitely a skill, a
system, and above all, a skiing discipline.

Thanks for the excellent observation, I knew there were gems in here
somewhere.

'later,
IS

  #15  
Old May 11th 07, 09:13 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
taichiskiing
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Posts: 1,256
Default ObSki: another run with flatboarding

On May 11, 10:28 am, Evojeesus wrote:
On May 9, 6:32 pm, taichiskiing
wrote:

Well, maybe you should really look into to ski free handed, so you
don't get washout by new progress/technique. Free your hands to free
you body, free your body to free your mind, Taichi Skiing reaches the
soul of skiing.


Have you got any footage from off-piste? I'd be curious to see how you
negotiate powder, packed powder, the varieties of windpack and crud
without poles.


No, I don't have any footage from off-piste, as I don't have a
cameraman to go with me. I ski the powder with "line skiing," i.e.
turn uphill to slow down and downhill to speed up, weight on the heels
to speed up and shift the weight to the tips to slow down, and turning
by following (coordinated) the rhythm of those ups and downs.

Do you ever ski anything seriously steep like couloirs
that are sometimes nastily hard/icy?


EasternFirm(tm)? Yes, I have, but never extreme skiing.

I fail to see how not having
poles is increasing my options in dealing with difficult situations.
Hell, can anyone name even one great freerider who decided that poles
are a hindrance? Show me the footage please.


Didn't say that you cannot use poles, but ski without poles/pole-
plants may initiate your turn sooner, change your direction quicker,
and in general make skiing easier. And with skating and walking, no-
pole-skiing can go anywhere that pole-skiing can go.

Don't know the current standing, but a few years back, all top three
national skierX winners were no-polers.

YMMV,
IS

  #16  
Old May 12th 07, 11:12 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Evojeesus
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Posts: 261
Default ObSki: another run with flatboarding

On May 11, 11:13 pm, taichiskiing
wrote:
On May 11, 10:28 am, Evojeesus wrote:


Have you got any footage from off-piste? I'd be curious to see how you
negotiate powder, packed powder, the varieties of windpack and crud
without poles.


No, I don't have any footage from off-piste, as I don't have a
cameraman to go with me. I ski the powder with "line skiing," i.e.
turn uphill to slow down and downhill to speed up, weight on the heels
to speed up and shift the weight to the tips to slow down, and turning
by following (coordinated) the rhythm of those ups and downs.


Hmm, I don't really understand how shifting weight to the tips will
slow you down. What do you think about the new equipment (fat skis)
that enable one to almost make carving turns in powder? What kind of
skis suit your tecnhique?

I fail to see how not having
poles is increasing my options in dealing with difficult situations.
Hell, can anyone name even one great freerider who decided that poles
are a hindrance? Show me the footage please.


Didn't say that you cannot use poles, but ski without poles/pole-
plants may initiate your turn sooner, change your direction quicker,
and in general make skiing easier. And with skating and walking, no-
pole-skiing can go anywhere that pole-skiing can go.


I can buy really lightweight poles and pretend one is not carrying
them if the need arises. You, however, cannot benefit from having
poles in any circumstances as you're not carrying them. There are also
benefits to having poles and in most situations just about everyone is
using them, so I don't think you claim is true. I'm sure skiing
without poles is an excellent drill, but for whole mountain skiing it
will never be as versatile as having poles.

Don't know the current standing, but a few years back, all top three
national skierX winners were no-polers.


What's skierX? Is there any footage? Anyway, I doubt that's the
situation today. Do you know any top mogul skiers who don't use poles?
In the moguls and the steeps poles can be really useful, not to
mention flat parts of off-piste runs.

  #17  
Old May 12th 07, 03:46 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
taichiskiing
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Posts: 1,256
Default ObSki: another run with flatboarding

On May 12, 4:12 am, Evojeesus wrote:
On May 11, 11:13 pm, taichiskiing
wrote:

On May 11, 10:28 am, Evojeesus wrote:
Have you got any footage from off-piste? I'd be curious to see how you
negotiate powder, packed powder, the varieties of windpack and crud
without poles.

No, I don't have any footage from off-piste, as I don't have a
cameraman to go with me. I ski the powder with "line skiing," i.e.
turn uphill to slow down and downhill to speed up, weight on the heels
to speed up and shift the weight to the tips to slow down, and turning
by following (coordinated) the rhythm of those ups and downs.


Hmm, I don't really understand how shifting weight to the tips will
slow you down. What do you think about the new equipment (fat skis)
that enable one to almost make carving turns in powder? What kind of
skis suit your tecnhique?


When you shift the weight to the tips, the tips dive into the powder,
which creates more friction, so you slow down. Mind you, it is not a
hard braking, and you're still going fast.

Carving, as skiing maneuver, only have the advantage for sharp turn
without loosing speed, but the maneuver itself is slow/static--you
have to hold down the edges to turn, which maybe too static for tree
powder skiing. I use more Wedeln than carving in powder skiing.

Fat skis are good for powder, but terrible in icy conditions, and
horrible in moguls. I have made a point not to have them. I'd use all-
mountain skis, my current skis are Salmon [original/yellow] 1080 at
177cm, and new for next year, 1080 Foil at 166cm.


I fail to see how not having
poles is increasing my options in dealing with difficult situations.
Hell, can anyone name even one great freerider who decided that poles
are a hindrance? Show me the footage please.

Didn't say that you cannot use poles, but ski without poles/pole-
plants may initiate your turn sooner, change your direction quicker,
and in general make skiing easier. And with skating and walking, no-
pole-skiing can go anywhere that pole-skiing can go.


I can buy really lightweight poles and pretend one is not carrying
them if the need arises. You, however, cannot benefit from having
poles in any circumstances as you're not carrying them. There are also
benefits to having poles and in most situations just about everyone is
using them, so I don't think you claim is true. I'm sure skiing
without poles is an excellent drill, but for whole mountain skiing it
will never be as versatile as having poles.


While carrying poles has its benefits, but the disadvantages may out-
weight the benefits. In high level skiing, poles are used as a timing
device and a balance device, so miss use a pole means loose you timing
or your balance, which would consequently screw up your forms/skiing,
and miss use a pole is a major source of thumb injuries, pulled
shoulders, got hang up on the branches of trees, tangle up the skier,
and etc. All that can be eliminated/prevented by not carrying poles.

And ski without poles but pretend they are there and use phantom pole-
plant to enhance the timing and balance, etc., is still pole-skiing,
which is totally different from no-pole-skiing, "Free your hands to
free you body, free your body to free your mind..." no-pole-skiing is
total "free" skiing. So you can see, no-pole-skiing is more versatile
than pole-skiing.


Don't know the current standing, but a few years back, all top three
national skierX winners were no-polers.


What's skierX? Is there any footage? Anyway, I doubt that's the
situation today. Do you know any top mogul skiers who don't use poles?
In the moguls and the steeps poles can be really useful, not to
mention flat parts of off-piste runs.


SkierX, skier-cross, a new game in skiing.

Skiing is a game of gravity. You trade the potential energy for
kinetic speed, so there's always a trade off in skiing, you gain some
and you loose some. Yes, mogul skiing is better with poles and as well
as on the flats; nevertheless, no-pole-skiing is still a fast,
exciting, and elegant skiing anywhere else in the mountains.

'later,
IS

  #18  
Old May 12th 07, 11:58 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Evojeesus
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Posts: 261
Default ObSki: another run with flatboarding

On May 12, 5:46 pm, taichiskiing
wrote:
On May 12, 4:12 am, Evojeesus wrote:


On May 11, 11:13 pm, taichiskiing
wrote:


Hmm, I don't really understand how shifting weight to the tips will
slow you down. What do you think about the new equipment (fat skis)
that enable one to almost make carving turns in powder? What kind of
skis suit your tecnhique?


When you shift the weight to the tips, the tips dive into the powder,
which creates more friction, so you slow down. Mind you, it is not a
hard braking, and you're still going fast.


I still don't really get it. I weigh the whole ski in powder and the
tips are only visible for only during a part of the turn. Do you
usually lean back in powder?

Carving, as skiing maneuver, only have the advantage for sharp turn
without loosing speed, but the maneuver itself is slow/static--you
have to hold down the edges to turn, which maybe too static for tree
powder skiing. I use more Wedeln than carving in powder skiing.


I don't think dealing with two mostly independent skis in powder is
static. Isn't Wedeln more static?

Fat skis are good for powder, but terrible in icy conditions, and
horrible in moguls.


Not true. This year I had Head I.M88s (88mm under the boot), they're
by far the best all-mountain skis I ever had. It's even possible to
properly carve with them on groomed slopes! On off-piste the
difference to old-school skis is enormous!

I can buy really lightweight poles and pretend one is not carrying
them if the need arises. You, however, cannot benefit from having
poles in any circumstances as you're not carrying them. There are also
benefits to having poles and in most situations just about everyone is
using them, so I don't think you claim is true. I'm sure skiing
without poles is an excellent drill, but for whole mountain skiing it
will never be as versatile as having poles.


While carrying poles has its benefits, but the disadvantages may out-
weight the benefits. In high level skiing, poles are used as a timing
device and a balance device, so miss use a pole means loose you timing
or your balance, which would consequently screw up your forms/skiing,
and miss use a pole is a major source of thumb injuries, pulled
shoulders, got hang up on the branches of trees, tangle up the skier,
and etc. All that can be eliminated/prevented by not carrying poles.


I don't miss a pole-plant very often and haven't injured myself so
far. The pole-plant is anyway mostly symbolic, in fast-sweeping turns
dragging the tip of the pole on the snow surface gives one info about
the situation...I like that. And in steeps...

And ski without poles but pretend they are there and use phantom pole-
plant to enhance the timing and balance, etc., is still pole-skiing,
which is totally different from no-pole-skiing, "Free your hands to
free you body, free your body to free your mind..." no-pole-skiing is
total "free" skiing. So you can see, no-pole-skiing is more versatile
than pole-skiing.


Well, I don't buy it. There are situations where poles are clearly
beneficial. If not using poles was "better", I think the pro's would
have figured that out already.

Don't know the current standing, but a few years back, all top three
national skierX winners were no-polers.


What's skierX? Is there any footage? Anyway, I doubt that's the
situation today. Do you know any top mogul skiers who don't use poles?
In the moguls and the steeps poles can be really useful, not to
mention flat parts of off-piste runs.


SkierX, skier-cross, a new game in skiing.


Is grapping allowed? Then poles would clearly be a hindrance.

Skiing is a game of gravity. You trade the potential energy for
kinetic speed, so there's always a trade off in skiing, you gain some
and you loose some. Yes, mogul skiing is better with poles and as well
as on the flats; nevertheless, no-pole-skiing is still a fast,
exciting, and elegant skiing anywhere else in the mountains.


I believe that when you can keep your upper-body and hands as still as
the masters (with or without poles). One should not have the need to
correct balance with superfluous hand-movements.

  #19  
Old May 14th 07, 01:42 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
taichiskiing
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Posts: 1,256
Default ObSki: another run with flatboarding

On May 12, 4:58 pm, Evojeesus wrote:
On May 12, 5:46 pm, taichiskiing
wrote:

......
Skiing is a game of gravity. You trade the potential energy for
kinetic speed, so there's always a trade off in skiing, you gain some
and you loose some. Yes, mogul skiing is better with poles and as well
as on the flats; nevertheless, no-pole-skiing is still a fast,
exciting, and elegant skiing anywhere else in the mountains.


I believe that when you can keep your upper-body and hands as still as
the masters (with or without poles). One should not have the need to
correct balance with superfluous hand-movements.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iubucBLb42o
also note that how the body moves straight down/straightlining.

'later,
IS

  #20  
Old May 14th 07, 06:44 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Evojeesus
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Posts: 261
Default ObSki: another run with flatboarding

On May 14, 3:42 pm, taichiskiing
wrote:
On May 12, 4:58 pm, Evojeesus wrote:


I believe that when you can keep your upper-body and hands as still as
the masters (with or without poles). One should not have the need to
correct balance with superfluous hand-movements.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iubucBLb42o
also note that how the body moves straight down/straightlining.


You don't even turn there, except in the very beginning! Also in your
other videoclips you seem to move your hands alot.


 




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