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#61
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Can I set my own bindings?
VtSkier wrote:
Walt wrote: VtSkier wrote: From wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_(spatial) "In physics and in vector calculus, a spatial vector, or simply vector, is a concept characterized by a magnitude and a direction." Yeah. Ok. Further down the page, magnitude is intentionally used interchangeably with "length" in effect saying it's the same thing. Yes, the magnitude of a position vector is the same thing it's length. Then "magnitude" = "distance", to which you add "direction" to define "torque" as opposed to "work". The only difference. Um, you lost me around that last curve. WTF? Think of it this way: I'm testing a binding. I place a boot in the binding and apply a torque of, say, 50 Newton Meters. The binding doesn't release. I've just described a situation where there is torque but no motion. Do you say there is no torque here? If so, how does one ever test a binding? You are NOT applying TORQUE to the torque wrench, you are only applying FORCE of 50 Newtons. There is no TORQUE until there is movement (of the binding releasing). As soon as you apply force you are applying torque. The two go hand in hand, you can't have one without the other. See the definition of torque: T = F X r . All you need is force and a moment arm, you do not need motion. I can't make it any clearer. I don't know where you got the erroneous idea that torque requires motion, but it's wrong. Trust me. It's wrong. It's not in the definition of torque. You are measuring POTENTIAL TORQUE, which the wrench reads in Newton-Meters because when the TORQUE happens (by movement) that's what it will be. There is no such thing as POTENTIAL TORQUE, at least not in physics. You are insistent that the torque doesn't exist until something moves, so you've invented a red herring concept to explain the existence of something that's obviously there but theoretically impossible in your belief system. Get out Dr Occam's razor and excise this unnecessary complication. When you apply the force, there is also an applied torque. Regardless of whether anything moves. Get it? Force implies torque, torque implies force. Where there is one there is the other *by definition*. And since we agree that it's possible to have force without motion it is also possible to have torque without motion. I've been saying this all along except that TORQUE cannot exist without motion. Yes, I know that that's what you've been saying. And I've been saying that every physics text written in the last 300 years disagrees with you. //Walt // //this is why I usually don't argue physics on usenet |
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#62
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Can I set my own bindings?
Richard Henry wrote:
Is this replacing the annual percent-slope-versus-angle thread? Ya know, I don't recall having this particular argument on RSA before. And it's been years since we've had a good percent-slope-versus-angle dust up. Anyway, if you want to have an argument with me you'll have to pay up like the other Richard. Would you like the 5 minute version, or do you want to go for the full hour? //Walt |
#63
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Can I set my own bindings?
On Feb 19, 2:10 pm, Walt wrote:
Richard Henry wrote: Is this replacing the annual percent-slope-versus-angle thread? Ya know, I don't recall having this particular argument on RSA before. And it's been years since we've had a good percent-slope-versus-angle dust up. Anyway, if you want to have an argument with me you'll have to pay up like the other Richard. Would you like the 5 minute version, or do you want to go for the full hour? Did Eugene ever have a winner of his "Physics of Skiing Essay Prize" contest? |
#64
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Can I set my own bindings?
Walt wrote:
Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque , or if you're a stickler for reliable sources, any elementary physics text like Hailliday and Resnick, or Sears and Zemansky. Ah, but do you have your copy of Halliday and Resnick at hand? I do. Well, not while I'm actually skiing, but nearby. Next to the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. |
#65
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Can I set my own bindings?
lal_truckee wrote:
Walt wrote: Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque , or if you're a stickler for reliable sources, any elementary physics text like Hailliday and Resnick, or Sears and Zemansky. Ah, but do you have your copy of Halliday and Resnick at hand? I do. Well, not while I'm actually skiing, but nearby. Next to the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. But of course, right between Thomas/Finney and Lorrain/Corson. My copy of the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics got stolen many years ago and I've never replaced it. And someday I plan to get the other two volumes of Feynman.... //Walt |
#66
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Can I set my own bindings?
Walt wrote:
lal_truckee wrote: Walt wrote: Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque , or if you're a stickler for reliable sources, any elementary physics text like Hailliday and Resnick, or Sears and Zemansky. Ah, but do you have your copy of Halliday and Resnick at hand? I do. Well, not while I'm actually skiing, but nearby. Next to the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. But of course, right between Thomas/Finney and Lorrain/Corson. My copy of the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics got stolen many years ago and I've never replaced it. And someday I plan to get the other two volumes of Feynman.... You jest! |
#67
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Can I set my own bindings?
Walt wrote:
down_hill wrote: Walt wrote: Think of it this way: I'm testing a binding. I place a boot in the binding and apply a torque of, say, 50 Newton Meters. The binding doesn't release. I've just described a situation where there is torque but no motion. Do you say there is no torque here? If so, how does one ever test a binding? What are the springs doing? Are they not being compressed motion? As you increase the torque from zero to 50 the springs compress, and there is a small amount of motion. Once you reach 50 and stop increasing the torque the system reaches a steady state where there is no motion. At that point there is torque but no motion. I was trying to think of a torque but no motion example... Here's a more visceral example: pick up a brick and hold it straight out in front of you with your arm horizontal. Hold it still. Then please try to explain, without allowing the brick to move, how there is no torque since there is no motion. There is FORCE but no TORQUE //Walt |
#68
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Can I set my own bindings?
Richard Henry wrote:
Is this replacing the annual percent-slope-versus-angle thread? No, but close. |
#69
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Can I set my own bindings?
Richard Henry wrote:
Is this replacing the annual percent-slope-versus-angle thread? Do you want to start that one? |
#70
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Can I set my own bindings?
lal_truckee wrote:
Walt wrote: lal_truckee wrote: Walt wrote: Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque , or if you're a stickler for reliable sources, any elementary physics text like Hailliday and Resnick, or Sears and Zemansky. Ah, but do you have your copy of Halliday and Resnick at hand? I do. Well, not while I'm actually skiing, but nearby. Next to the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. But of course, right between Thomas/Finney and Lorrain/Corson. My copy of the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics got stolen many years ago and I've never replaced it. And someday I plan to get the other two volumes of Feynman.... You jest! Nah. If I was jesting I'd say that I keep it in the ski locker next to the Urquell. //Walt // // |
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