my first distance workout on inlines

It's great to have Nathan sharing his real-world coaching experiences:

Rollerbladers tend to push off more toward the back,
and they don't use a knee drive nearly as much because
it is awkward on blades. I have two athletes that I'm
coaching who are big rollerbladers

But this isn't connecting for me -- with what I've been reading about inline
skating technique, or my own experiences with inlines. I'm wondering what
_kind_ of "rollerblading" these two guys were doing: hockey? tricks? 10K
races? long-distance touring?

Because it's sounding like part of the problem is inferior _inline_
technique, at least from a racing perspective.

Like when I read Barry Publow's book Speed on Skates (Human Kinetics, 1999),
he says on page 11 that in good skating technique on inlines, the push is
pretty much "sideward". He says that pushing backward is a "novice skater"
move.

As for knee drive, Barry Publow says on page 7 that the basic body position
for inline racing is with the knee flexed at about 110 degrees -- that's a
pretty deep bend. Then at the initiation of leg force (after set-down and
rolling onto the inside edge), he says on page 16 that the knee has to
forward ahead of the skate.

When I look at a real pair of inline race skates, I'm not getting what about
them would be "awkward" for getting good knee drive. I do not have full
race skates, but when I undo the ankle stuff strap on my Salomon Mag Elites
(whose boot looks remarkably like a Pilot ski boot), I found it was like a
revelation of what forward ankle flex and drive off a deep knee could really
be. Then I put on my rollerskis to see if I could start transferring that
feel to skiing.

My suspicion is that what happens is that:

(a) Very few inline skaters have been well-coached for racing, or seen
Publow's book.

(b) Very few ever try skating with their ankle strap loose.

(c) Inline skates _allow_ you to get away with all kinds of technique sins
(like Classic rollerskis)

I'm intrigued by Endestad's suggestion for training on inlines: Do not use
them to try to duplicate ski technique. Instead use them to _exaggerate_
certain aspects of skiing. And use flexible speed skater's boots.

Ken

Ken Roberts wrote:

I just found out another way to get more knee and ankle bend on my inline
skates.

I was digging into the details of the instructions for my Salomon TR Mag
Elite skates and discovered that there's a little screw I can take out from
the back of the heel. After I did that, the plastic ankle cuff support
piece easily pivots forward as I deeply bend my ankle.

So now that black plastic ankle piece not only _looks_ like my Pilot skate
boot, it also _acts_ like my Salomon skate boot.

The thing is that you now have a hard time fighting of the "hockey skate" type
of skating, eg skating "backwards" with your skates, more like running on skates
and not stroke to the sides as it should be.

--

Forward in all directions

Janne G

I see that as mostly a conceptual or coaching problem, not an equipment
problem. Lots of people push backward too much even on snow with skis.

I think I am stroking out to the side, not pushing backward. Seems to me
this is something I can reliable check for myself, since I can just look
down and see where my boot is going. And I can consciously practice
"slicing" my foot forward at the end of the stroke.

Now that I spent a couple of hours skiing with the screw removed, I'm even
more impressed with the Salomon TR Mag Elites -- because when I tighten the
ankle strap I get good "edge" control, _and_ still keep getting the strong
ankle flex and knee bend for full range of motion in my skate stroke.

Janne G wrote:
The thing is that you now have a hard time fighting
of the "hockey skate" type of skating, eg skating
"backwards" with your skates, more like running
on skates and not stroke to the sides as it should be.

My current thinking is that while there might be problems with inline skates
allowing sloppy technique when not used with proper coaching -- but they're
nowhere near as bad for that as Classic rollerskis.

Ken

Ken,

I hope that I didn't give you the wrong impression about rollerblades.
My philosophy on training is one should do whatever works for them. If you
find that you really enjoy rollerblading and that it works for you, than by
all means, you should be rollerblading. My point was that you need to be
aware of their limitations and that rollerskis are a better way to train
skiing technique than rollerblades. That does not mean that rollerblades
can't be used to improve technique and play with different things. Just
that most people I have worked with who rollerblade develop habits
rollerblading that interfere with skiing technique, so if you're
rollerblading exclusively, you are probably creating habits that may mess up
your skiing a bit.

Yes, it is true that none of the athletes I was working with were racing
or coached (by rollerbladers), so they were probably doing something wrong
with their in-line technique. But even somebody in-lining with "perfect"
technique is probably going to notice the significant differences in
balance, feel, equipment and technique between rollerblading and
rollerskiing.

As for your specific question about knee drive - you may be able to
modify your equipment to get appropriate skiing knee drive. But then you
are modifying your equipment so you can make rollerblading more like
rollerskiing, which kind of proves the point that it _is_ different.

-Nathan

"Ken Roberts" wrote in message
...


My suspicion is that what happens is that:

(a) Very few inline skaters have been well-coached for racing, or seen
Publow's book.

Probably true


(b) Very few ever try skating with their ankle strap loose.


Yes, probably true

(c) Inline skates _allow_ you to get away with all kinds of technique sins
(like Classic rollerskis)


Yes, definitely true.

Ken Roberts wrote:

I see that as mostly a conceptual or coaching problem, not an equipment
problem. Lots of people push backward too much even on snow with skis.

I think I am stroking out to the side, not pushing backward. Seems to me
this is something I can reliable check for myself, since I can just look
down and see where my boot is going. And I can consciously practice
"slicing" my foot forward at the end of the stroke.

If you from the beginning need to have more forward-backward motion when
skating then you allready stroking backwards. You should not have to unscreew
this to get confortable in your skating technique. But if you need it to
get more manuverable then i can see the point but not for the skating stroke
it self.

One thing you should explore is the frames location and angle compare to your
foot, i for example walk with my feets a little to the outside and therefore
i have adjusted the frame pointing inwards and by that get more natural stroking
(for my feets that is). Some walk with theire feets inwards and the have to adjust
the frame according to that.
Be aware so you don't disturb the balance point of the setup so you are leaning
inwards/outwards at your wrists.

Now that I spent a couple of hours skiing with the screw removed, I'm even
more impressed with the Salomon TR Mag Elites -- because when I tighten the
ankle strap I get good "edge" control, _and_ still keep getting the strong
ankle flex and knee bend for full range of motion in my skate stroke.

Janne G wrote:
The thing is that you now have a hard time fighting
of the "hockey skate" type of skating, eg skating
"backwards" with your skates, more like running
on skates and not stroke to the sides as it should be.

My current thinking is that while there might be problems with inline skates
allowing sloppy technique when not used with proper coaching -- but they're
nowhere near as bad for that as Classic rollerskis.

Ken

--

Forward in all directions

Janne G

Ken Roberts wrote:

Sounds like adjusting the frame is my next step with my inline skates. I
know some people make a big deal about "canting" adjustments with alpine
downhill ski boots. Do racers also do that with high-end cross country
skate boots?

I think that downhill skiers have a diffrent point of view when adjusting the
"canting" angle. As a matter of fact i discussed this this weekend with a pal
that are a good downhill skier. They use it to get more grip in the curves
and by that goes faster through the curve. I don't think that is an issue
for XC-skiiers. But i know that inline speedskaters experiments with "negative
canting" due to the fact that the wheel have the most powerloss when they
are most tilted compared to the ground and with "negative canting" they
can reduce the angle between the asphalt and the wheel at the end of the
stroke and by that reduce the powerloss a little.

One thing you should explore is the frames location
and angle compare to your foot, i for example walk
with my feet a little to the outside and therefore
i have adjusted the frame pointing inwards and by
that get more natural stroking

My father is very familiar with that for ice skates, so I'll try working
with him on that adjustment.

As i writed earlier be aware so you dont move balance point from your center,
that means that you have to get an confortable balance when standing upright
on your skates. If they "tilt" at some of the sides then your not balanced
and you are going to get blister somewhere up on your wrist or/and ankle bone.

--

Forward in all directions

Janne G