Politics on the newsgroup: do African Americans really earn morethan Swedes?

I don't want a flame war either but I was surprised by the claim that the
average African American earns more than the average Swede. I looked up
figures from the World Bank for 2003. The income per person USA: 37,610,
Norway 43,350, Sweden 28,840,
I couldn't find an overall income figure for African Americans but did find
a list of per capita income of African Americans per city across the USA in
only two cities (Scotsdale AZ and Fremont CA) did the per capita income
figure excede the Swedish figure. The figure in most cities was much lower
in Minneapolis for example $12,274. Of course this doesn't take into account
the slide in the dollar versus the euro or the comparative costs of healht
care.
Very probably, it is easier to establish social welfare democracies in small
ethnically homogenous countries like Norway and Sweden than in larger more
diverse ones like the USA. Very likely, such homogeneity, when threatened
provides fertile soil for racism but I know which model I prefer.
Some old figures:
1989 Sweden richest 20% owns 37.8% of national wealth ; poorest 8.1%
USA richest 20% owns 44.6% poorest 20% 4.6%
Andy bolger

Nice troll.

JT

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Nice troll.

There's a Scandinavian-related joke out there ... left as an exercise.

Lew Lasher
Cambridge, Massachusetts and Stowe, Vermont

Andrew Bolger wrote:
I don't want a flame war either but I was surprised by the claim that
the
average African American earns more than the average Swede. I looked
up
figures from the World Bank for 2003. The income per person USA:
37,610,
Norway 43,350, Sweden 28,840,

You have to read more carefully. I didn't mention income per person, I
mentioned standard of living. Standard of living invloves many
different factors. An economist could help us out here.


Very probably, it is easier to establish social welfare democracies
in small
ethnically homogenous countries like Norway and Sweden than in larger
more
diverse ones like the USA. Very likely, such homogeneity, when
threatened
provides fertile soil for racism but I know which model I prefer.
Some old figures:
1989 Sweden richest 20% owns 37.8% of national wealth ; poorest 8.1%
USA richest 20% owns 44.6% poorest 20% 4.6%
Andy bolger

Once again, we're not talking income or capital (wealth). We're talking
standard of living.

Jay Tegeder
Once again, not starting any flame or border wars. Don't kill the
messenger...

On 2 Jan 2005 14:15:13 -0800, wrote:


Andrew Bolger wrote:
I don't want a flame war either but I was surprised by the claim that
the
average African American earns more than the average Swede. I looked
up
figures from the World Bank for 2003. The income per person USA:
37,610,
Norway 43,350, Sweden 28,840,

You have to read more carefully. I didn't mention income per person, I
mentioned standard of living. Standard of living invloves many
different factors. An economist could help us out here.


Very probably, it is easier to establish social welfare democracies
in small
ethnically homogenous countries like Norway and Sweden than in larger
more
diverse ones like the USA. Very likely, such homogeneity, when
threatened
provides fertile soil for racism but I know which model I prefer.
Some old figures:
1989 Sweden richest 20% owns 37.8% of national wealth ; poorest 8.1%
USA richest 20% owns 44.6% poorest 20% 4.6%
Andy bolger

Once again, we're not talking income or capital (wealth). We're talking
standard of living.

Jay Tegeder
Once again, not starting any flame or border wars. Don't kill the
messenger...


No flame wars but this particular statistic comes from a conservative
think tank (Heritage Foundation or the Cato Foundation, I can't
remember which) paper on poverty in America. The poor (not just
Blacks) were said in that report to be better off than the average
European almost entirely due to having more cubic feet of living space
per person. A more accurate comparison of the disirability of a
country in which to reside is contained in various surveys of
Quality-of-Life. The Economist (hardly a liberal publication) has
released a new one for 2005:

http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/QUALITY_OF_LIFE.pdf


The U.S is 13th on the list with Norway 3rd and Sweden 5th. For anyone
who has been in a northern European country to state that the average
poor person in America has a higher standard of living than the
average European is at best being disengenuous.


g.c.

This is very subjective. One of the factors involved in standard of
living would be cost of fossil fuels such as gasoline. While many
Americans complain about high gasoline costs, we pay a lot less than
they do in Europe. Higher fuel costs cut into a persons standard of
living. Food is another example. Food is cheap and plentiful in the U
S. Food costs are another big factor in standard of living. Consumer
goods are also less expensive in the U S. Once again, that affects
standard of living. Americans keep more of their income than Europeans.
That definitely fits into standard of living. Healthcare, on the other
hand, is less expensive in Europe due to nationalized healthcare.
Access to that healthcare isn't always as good as it is in the U S
though. Drugs are cheaper in Europe too. All of those factors go into
standard of living. As the population ages, both Europe and the U S
will have a tough time paying for social security and pensions etc.
However, population trends favor the U S where the birthrate is higher.
I believe Italy actually has negative population growth. Unemployment
is also a factor in standard of living. France and Germany for example
are around 10% unemployment. The U S is hovering around 5%. One thing
that cuts into the U S standard of living is our payments to the U N.
If I'm not mistaken, the U S, besides hosting the U N in New York, pays
40% of the U N bill.

Jay Tegeder
Not starting any flame wars, just some stuff to think about.

On 2 Jan 2005 15:58:18 -0800, wrote:

This is very subjective. One of the factors involved in standard of
living would be cost of fossil fuels such as gasoline. While many
Americans complain about high gasoline costs, we pay a lot less than
they do in Europe. Higher fuel costs cut into a persons standard of
living. Food is another example. Food is cheap and plentiful in the U
S. Food costs are another big factor in standard of living. Consumer
goods are also less expensive in the U S. Once again, that affects
standard of living. Americans keep more of their income than Europeans.
That definitely fits into standard of living. Healthcare, on the other
hand, is less expensive in Europe due to nationalized healthcare.
Access to that healthcare isn't always as good as it is in the U S
though. Drugs are cheaper in Europe too. All of those factors go into
standard of living. As the population ages, both Europe and the U S
will have a tough time paying for social security and pensions etc.
However, population trends favor the U S where the birthrate is higher.
I believe Italy actually has negative population growth. Unemployment
is also a factor in standard of living. France and Germany for example
are around 10% unemployment. The U S is hovering around 5%. One thing
that cuts into the U S standard of living is our payments to the U N.
If I'm not mistaken, the U S, besides hosting the U N in New York, pays
40% of the U N bill.

Jay Tegeder
Not starting any flame wars, just some stuff to think about.


The U.S pays 22% of the U.N.s dues with Japan second at 19%. On amount
paid per capita we aren't even in the top ten.

http://www.un.org/geninfo/ir/ch5/ch5_txt.htm#q10


g.c.

wrote:
This is very subjective. One of the factors involved in standard of
living would be cost of fossil fuels such as gasoline. While many
Americans complain about high gasoline costs, we pay a lot less than
they do in Europe. Higher fuel costs cut into a persons standard of
living.
[snip]
Jay Tegeder

Fuel cost in Europe may be high but their transit systems (of the
several of counties that I have visited) seem to be a whole lot better
than ours. I have been able to get around quite well, without a rental
car in Scandinavia unlike North America. We have been able to take our
skis on trams and trains with the only problem being that the train is
filled with other skier's packs and skis gear.

As Jay says, quality of life is subjective.
Edgar

PS If global warming continues, forget skiing as we know it.