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History of "Master" category in cross country skiing??



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 5th 04, 01:29 AM
Tim Kelley
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Default History of "Master" category in cross country skiing??

Seeing that R.S.N has a strong masters skier presence, I'm sure that
someone can answer this: Why does the "master" category in cross
country skiing start at age 30? It seemed odd to me in my earlier
years because master catagories in other sports (running, biking)
started (or used to start?) at 40. So I've long wondered what the
history of this categorization is. I figure this master = 30 cutoff
must pre-date AXCS? Was it a USSA decision before the split?

I'm not making any judgement on this ... I'm a masters racer "newbie"
(started racing masters categories in my 40's) and I just flat don't
know what the history of this age cutoff choice is. Anyone?

TK

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  #2  
Old November 5th 04, 02:04 AM
John Forrest Tomlinson
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On 4 Nov 2004 17:29:42 -0800, "Tim Kelley" wrote:

Seeing that R.S.N has a strong masters skier presence, I'm sure that
someone can answer this: Why does the "master" category in cross
country skiing start at age 30? It seemed odd to me in my earlier
years because master catagories in other sports (running, biking)
started (or used to start?) at 40. So I've long wondered what the
history of this categorization is. I figure this master = 30 cutoff
must pre-date AXCS? Was it a USSA decision before the split?


I think the age definition for masters in many sports keeps going
down. It's an attempt by organizers/promoters of "masters" events to
get more people involved by broadening the definition.

JT

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  #3  
Old November 5th 04, 03:11 AM
Mitch Collinsworth
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On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

On 4 Nov 2004 17:29:42 -0800, "Tim Kelley" wrote:

Seeing that R.S.N has a strong masters skier presence, I'm sure that
someone can answer this: Why does the "master" category in cross
country skiing start at age 30? It seemed odd to me in my earlier
years because master catagories in other sports (running, biking)
started (or used to start?) at 40. So I've long wondered what the
history of this categorization is. I figure this master = 30 cutoff
must pre-date AXCS? Was it a USSA decision before the split?


I think the age definition for masters in many sports keeps going
down. It's an attempt by organizers/promoters of "masters" events to
get more people involved by broadening the definition.


It's certainly been at 30 as long as I've been around the sport, which
is only since about mid-1980's, and yes, long before AXCS. I'm sure
there are others here who can trace much farther back than that.

-Mitch




  #4  
Old November 5th 04, 04:13 PM
Scott Elliot
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I speculate that it comes from the 10 year age classes used for many types
of racing.

Based on the Canadian age groups for competitive skiing we have the
following classes:

0-20 are generally in 2 year classes Atom, Peewee, Mini Midget, Juvenile,
Junior Boy/Girl, Junior Men/Women.

21-30 is the open or senior class

31-40, 41-50, etc. are called the master classes.

I suppose it is just a polite way of saying "getting slower" for most of us.
Note that a few elite skiers are competitive at World Cup levels until well
into their 30's. People who strive for that level of skiing but haven't
achieved it by 30 are unlikely to ever get there and usually back off on
levels of training.

Scott

"Tim Kelley" wrote in message
oups.com...
Seeing that R.S.N has a strong masters skier presence, I'm sure that
someone can answer this: Why does the "master" category in cross
country skiing start at age 30? It seemed odd to me in my earlier
years because master catagories in other sports (running, biking)
started (or used to start?) at 40. So I've long wondered what the
history of this categorization is. I figure this master = 30 cutoff
must pre-date AXCS? Was it a USSA decision before the split?

I'm not making any judgement on this ... I'm a masters racer "newbie"
(started racing masters categories in my 40's) and I just flat don't
know what the history of this age cutoff choice is. Anyone?

TK



  #5  
Old November 5th 04, 06:06 PM
taywood
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I believe the World Masters Association was formed to unite all Masters
skiers world wide in whom 'the fire of competition still burns' and they
provide international championships for all racers who wish to take part
irrespective of their racing background or their current ski club and
skills.
Of course its far better for admin and logistics if the racers belong to
their
own National Masters organisation.

The question of the age 30 age group has been debated many times over
the years by WMA and comparisons have been made with other sports.
A prime factor at one time was the feeling that we (the ski world) needed
to keep ex National Team skiers active in racing, albeit at a more pleasant
level, once they retired from elite racing and were faced with the usual
problems of work, family and home life that the rest of us struggle with.

I dont know what the current WMA feelings are on this subject, nor what
governed your National Masters decision, but the skills of the ex elite
racers
are reflected in the race results for the 30 to 34 age group and its what
makes racing here so tough for amateurs of this age.

(Hmmm its all tough though. You've only to look at the familiar names in the
WMA Prize winners lists for the 60's to 80's age groups and see the times
they are still achieving.
Its wonderful to see them and its Sport for All)



  #6  
Old November 5th 04, 07:37 PM
Tim Kelley
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So ... was the WMA formed, and they established the 30 as the start of
master classes, prior to the USSA establishing this categorization?

I know that USSA masters alpine racing, masters starts at 30. This
makes sense to me ... it seems like it takes a lot of surgeon bills to
keep alpine elite racer knees going until this age. So I was wondering
if the USSA once pushed a "one size fits all" concept: that everyone
past 30 is a master, whether alpine or cross country skier?

I understand WMA's desire to keep ex nat-team skiers in the game. But
the 30's age categories, especially the M1 category seems like the
"identiy crisis" category. Often ex-natl teamers say: "Why race M1 at
masters nats, when same age guys race are racing the big time in the
senior nationals." (I know I used to think this way.) Ex nat'l
teamers usually avoid this "identiy crisis" these days. They join a
vendor team and race marathons where they compete against all ages.
Today 30-40 year olders don't rely on masters racing categories in
USSA/AXCS to keep active - they have marathons galore to choose from.

Like I said, I'm a "newbie" to masters ski racing. So I ask some
"dumb" questions about things in the masters skiing game that seem,
well ... kinda dumb to me. Like why, at the World Cup in Quebec in
2002 for instance, are there M1 women's categories with 4-5 skiers? Or
why at AXCS nationals only see several M1 men, like in 2003? Where at
the same time all age categories at 40 and above are have brutal and
deep competition.

I don't have any answers on how to make the M1 and M2 "bridge"
categories less of the "identiy crisis" categories. But is seems this
strange aspect of age category racing in our sport should continue to
be a source of debate. But then again, who knows ... in 10+ years when
all of us baby boomers are over 50 and no one is racing in masters
between 40-49, and Carl Swenson is winning World Cup races at 44 - the
topic of this debate will again change!

  #7  
Old November 5th 04, 09:31 PM
Leland Yee
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"Tim Kelley" wrote in message
oups.com...
Seeing that R.S.N has a strong masters skier presence, I'm sure that
someone can answer this: Why does the "master" category in cross
country skiing start at age 30? It seemed odd to me in my earlier
years because master catagories in other sports (running, biking)
started (or used to start?) at 40. So I've long wondered what the
history of this categorization is. I figure this master = 30 cutoff
must pre-date AXCS? Was it a USSA decision before the split?


When I was in masters swimming 30 years ago, the minimum age was 25,
probably because swimmers tended to quit in their early 20's. I don't know
what the age is now.

Leland Yee




  #8  
Old November 6th 04, 06:03 PM
downhill
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Tim Kelley wrote:
So ... was the WMA formed, and they established the 30 as the start of
master classes, prior to the USSA establishing this categorization?

I know that USSA masters alpine racing, masters starts at 30. This
makes sense to me ... it seems like it takes a lot of surgeon bills to
keep alpine elite racer knees going until this age. So I was wondering
if the USSA once pushed a "one size fits all" concept: that everyone
past 30 is a master, whether alpine or cross country skier?


I run Apline masters with the New England group and this was what had
been posted on web site.


Masters General Racer Eligibility - To participate in USSA masters
events, athletes must be:
· at least 21 years old and hold a USSA Masters membership, or,
· be between the ages of 21 and 24 and hold a USSA Student membership, or,
· be at least 21 years old and purchase a temporary USSA membership
which is good for one event (generally one weekend of racing). This
membership option can be purchased for a maximum of two events before a
full membership must be purchased, or,
· be between the ages of 18 and 20, not hold a USSA Competitor membership or
a USSA Student membership, and purchase a temporary USSA membership
which is good for one event (generally one weekend of racing). This
membership option can be purchased for a maximum of two events.

michael

  #9  
Old November 8th 04, 05:36 AM
Nathan Schultz
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"taywood" wrote in message
...
I believe the World Masters Association was formed to unite all Masters
skiers world wide in whom 'the fire of competition still burns' and they
provide international championships for all racers who wish to take part
irrespective of their racing background or their current ski club and
skills.



Except that any master skier who has been on a national team, world
championships team or sponsored team in the past 5 years cannot compete.
Maybe this is no longer true, but a few years ago it was.

-Nathan
www.nsavage.com


 




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