spring weather jacket (shell)

So, I have a Couloir ski jacket from several years ago. It has many
features: It has oodles of pockets. It covers my butt and has a powder
skirt. It fits. It's comfy. It looks good. It's warm. For Maine and
A-Basin, it's great.

Did I mention it's warm? God, is it warm. Toasty. Roasting. This
weekend, which was sunny with highs in the mid-30s and no wind, I
stripped down to just a synth thermal shirt, foregoing the usual
turtleneck, and I was *still* sweating by the first few turns.
(Granted, it was a mogul run, and some of that sweat was certainly from
fear.) It finally occurs to me that I can't strip much farther than
that without peeling off layers of skin.

This problem is pretty new to me, as my life is spent seeking out extra
layers, blankets, and hot beverages to keep myself from freezing. I'm
practically cold-blooded; that is to say, my circulation doesn't
circulate very well.

Anyhoo. My s.o. gave me a $100 REI gift certificate for Christmas, and
he recently suggested that maybe I should hunt down a lightweight shell
for spring conditions. Something wind- and waterproof with no liner
whatsoever. Being soaked in sweat on the lift is just no fun.

Off I go ...

So, apparently, lightweight stuff is just as expensive as heavy stuff.
Furthermore, lightweight stuff does not tend to have much in the way of
pockets. Women's lightweight stuff appears to be designed without any
thought to fitting layers underneath, not to mention the truly butt-ugly
shades of grey and beige that seem to be preferred. Men's lightweight
stuff is much roomier, except in the hips, which makes it difficult to
zip up.

I finally settled on this:

http://tinyurl.com/2qk6z

(REI Ultra Light Jacket, Women's XL)

$125. One breast pocket and two huge hand-level pockets, but no inside
pockets or arm pockets. It comes down far enough over my snow pants
that I'm not worried about wind sneaking in the sides. The hood is
removeable, and will certainly be removed, as it won't fit over my
helmet, anyway. It has *huge* pit vents; more like full arm and side
vents.

It sure seems like a lot of money, but there were much more expensive
options, and anyway, I could use this both as a generic rain jacket and
as a cycling layer (neither of which I currently own).

The question: does anyone have experience with this or similar styles of
jackets being used for skiing? Could anyone share their advice,
alternate suggestions, etc?

Sorry for the great american novel.

--
monique

Monique Y. Herman wrote:
snip

The question: does anyone have experience with this or similar styles
of jackets being used for skiing? Could anyone share their advice,
alternate suggestions, etc?

Sorry for the great american novel.

I have two shells I ski in, niether of which have any kind of insulating
liner. One is an older Patagonia Nitro shell. It's bomb-proof and has a
detatchable hood that I keep detatched for the same reason you mentioned
(helmet). I love it and wear it most of the season until it starts warming
up.
Then I switch to my Moonstone shell, which is a lighter weight Gore-Tex
hooded affair. I think it's like this one
http://www.moonstone.com/d_mshells.asp?id=083612 but a few years old (I
forget the model). The hood is not detachable (would be nice if it was, but
it's not a big deal) but it is stowable. It's nice and light and I take it
hiking and backpacking in the summer too.
Neither of these have insulation and niether are cheap. I hate cheap stuff,
especially when it comes to something I use a lot to keep me alive. I don't
like insulated jackets for active stuff because they make me too hot and I
could always layer up if I need the insulation. I've had the Nitro shell for
something like 9 or 10 years (maybe 600 days of skiing or so) and it's still
in good shape although it has faded quite a bit. The Moonstone shell I've
only had for about six years and it was a replacement for an older shell
that Moonstone gave me at a discount after I wore the older one out and sent
it in. Quality outerwear is a great investment, and choosing a company who
stands behind their products is also important. Bottom line: you get what
you pay for, and I think the $350 and $250 prices of these jackets was a
good investment.

Matt

On 2004-01-13, MattB penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:
snip

I have two shells I ski in, niether of which have any kind of insulating
liner. One is an older Patagonia Nitro shell. It's bomb-proof and has a
detatchable hood that I keep detatched for the same reason you mentioned
(helmet). I love it and wear it most of the season until it starts warming
up.
Then I switch to my Moonstone shell, which is a lighter weight Gore-Tex
hooded affair. I think it's like this one
http://www.moonstone.com/d_mshells.asp?id=083612 but a few years old (I
forget the model). The hood is not detachable (would be nice if it was, but
it's not a big deal) but it is stowable. It's nice and light and I take it
hiking and backpacking in the summer too.
Neither of these have insulation and niether are cheap. I hate cheap stuff,
especially when it comes to something I use a lot to keep me alive. I don't
like insulated jackets for active stuff because they make me too hot and I
could always layer up if I need the insulation. I've had the Nitro shell for
something like 9 or 10 years (maybe 600 days of skiing or so) and it's still
in good shape although it has faded quite a bit. The Moonstone shell I've
only had for about six years and it was a replacement for an older shell
that Moonstone gave me at a discount after I wore the older one out and sent
it in. Quality outerwear is a great investment, and choosing a company who
stands behind their products is also important. Bottom line: you get what
you pay for, and I think the $350 and $250 prices of these jackets was a
good investment.

Matt


Thanks for the insight! Naturally, the model of Moonstone that you link
isn't available in women's styles =P Then again, their women's styles
seem to cut in far too much at the waist, which I think might be a
problem for layers.

I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be skiing a
lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a brand name) is
worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker shock.

I'll keep the tags on this REI shell and try to visit EMS, Gart's, and
Boulder Ski Deals in the next few weeks to see what they have available.
The jacket I got may end up being the best that I can find, but it can't
hurt to shop around.

Anyone have any other outdoor gear shop suggestions in the
Boulder/Longmont area?


--
monique

Monique Y. Herman wrote:


I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be skiing a
lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a brand name) is
worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker shock.

Survival gear is pricey - so's dying. But sticker shock can be circuvented.

What I've done for decades is to keep an eye on the discounters - North
Face outlet, REI, Wilderness Exchange, Mountain Hardware's shop-front
store (it helps to be in Berkeley occasionally, but there are others,
and there's always the net) and buy ahead of need when quality and
features meet price at an appropriately point. Which means I've kept a
brand new parka in storage waiting for it's predecesssor to wear out,
which it finally did earlier this year as illustrated by it's seams
beginning to leak, and zippers breaking, and the fraying at the cuffs,
and the various leaky glue on patches from encounters with trees . So I
just moved on to the new parka which I bought at much less than half
retail two years ago without skipping a beat. It also means I need to
start watching for my next parka at a good price and be ready to buy.

On 2004-01-13, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:


I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be
skiing a lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a
brand name) is worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker
shock.

Survival gear is pricey - so's dying. But sticker shock can be
circuvented.

What I've done for decades is to keep an eye on the discounters -
North Face outlet, REI, Wilderness Exchange, Mountain Hardware's
shop-front store (it helps to be in Berkeley occasionally, but there
are others, and there's always the net) and buy ahead of need when
quality and features meet price at an appropriately point. Which means
I've kept a brand new parka in storage waiting for it's predecesssor
to wear out, which it finally did earlier this year as illustrated by
it's seams beginning to leak, and zippers breaking, and the fraying at
the cuffs, and the various leaky glue on patches from encounters with
trees . So I just moved on to the new parka which I bought at much
less than half retail two years ago without skipping a beat. It also
means I need to start watching for my next parka at a good price and
be ready to buy.


That sounds like a wonderful idea. I'm not very good at shopping smart,
though, and if I bought something ahead of time, I have no doubt I'd
immediately start using my new toy, even when the old one was perfectly
good.

--
monique "impulse buyer extraordinaire"

Monique Y. Herman wrote:
On 2004-01-13, MattB penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:
snip

I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be
skiing a lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a
brand name) is worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker
shock.

I'll keep the tags on this REI shell and try to visit EMS, Gart's, and
Boulder Ski Deals in the next few weeks to see what they have
available. The jacket I got may end up being the best that I can
find, but it can't hurt to shop around.

Anyone have any other outdoor gear shop suggestions in the
Boulder/Longmont area?

Also see what outlets are in Silverthorn next time you're that way. I forget
what's there, but there may be a NF outet. Otherwise try googling for
Colorado outlet stores for the brands you like (or might like). I'm sure
there's some out there somewhere.

Lucky for me the Mrs works at a shop that carries Moonstone. I just got some
new pants for $85 on the employee deal. Usually I buy the stuff in the wrong
season at a big discount, but if you need it now than that's out. Something
to look out for next summer.

Another way to go is to keep an eye out for old Patagonia stuff at goodwill
shops. If you can find something that's all worn out you can send it in to
Patagonia and they may just replace it (or repair at their discretion). I
have a friend who bought a haggard Patagonia shell for $30 and then sent it
in and got a brand new one in return. Great deal!

Matt

On 2004-01-13, MattB penned:
On 2004-01-13, MattB penned:

Also see what outlets are in Silverthorn next time you're that way. I
forget what's there, but there may be a NF outet. Otherwise try
googling for Colorado outlet stores for the brands you like (or might
like). I'm sure there's some out there somewhere.

Actually, I believe there's a NF outlet in Boulder. I see it all the
time on the way up to the mountains =) Never been in it, though.

I browsed the EMS website and found this:

http://tinyurl.com/2h3c6

(EMS Summit Parka, Women's)

The local store has them in stock. Much heavier than the one I bought,
but looks more featureful, too. I'll check it out as soon as I get my
car back from the shop *sigh*.

Lucky for me the Mrs works at a shop that carries Moonstone. I just
got some new pants for $85 on the employee deal. Usually I buy the
stuff in the wrong season at a big discount, but if you need it now
than that's out. Something to look out for next summer.

Nice!

Yeah, I'm awful about buying things when they're most expensive.

Another way to go is to keep an eye out for old Patagonia stuff at
goodwill shops. If you can find something that's all worn out you can
send it in to Patagonia and they may just replace it (or repair at
their discretion). I have a friend who bought a haggard Patagonia
shell for $30 and then sent it in and got a brand new one in return.
Great deal!

Great deal, but I don't think I'd be comfortable doing that.

--
monique

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...
On 2004-01-13, MattB penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:
snip

I have two shells I ski in, niether of which have any kind of insulating
liner. One is an older Patagonia Nitro shell. It's bomb-proof and has a
detatchable hood that I keep detatched for the same reason you mentioned
(helmet). I love it and wear it most of the season until it starts
warming
up.
Then I switch to my Moonstone shell, which is a lighter weight Gore-Tex
hooded affair. I think it's like this one
http://www.moonstone.com/d_mshells.asp?id=083612 but a few years old (I
forget the model). The hood is not detachable (would be nice if it was,
but
it's not a big deal) but it is stowable. It's nice and light and I take
it
hiking and backpacking in the summer too.
Neither of these have insulation and niether are cheap. I hate cheap
stuff,
especially when it comes to something I use a lot to keep me alive. I
don't
like insulated jackets for active stuff because they make me too hot and
I
could always layer up if I need the insulation. I've had the Nitro shell
for
something like 9 or 10 years (maybe 600 days of skiing or so) and it's
still
in good shape although it has faded quite a bit. The Moonstone shell
I've
only had for about six years and it was a replacement for an older shell
that Moonstone gave me at a discount after I wore the older one out and
sent
it in. Quality outerwear is a great investment, and choosing a company
who
stands behind their products is also important. Bottom line: you get
what
you pay for, and I think the $350 and $250 prices of these jackets was a
good investment.

Matt


Thanks for the insight! Naturally, the model of Moonstone that you link
isn't available in women's styles =P Then again, their women's styles
seem to cut in far too much at the waist, which I think might be a
problem for layers.

I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be skiing a
lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a brand name) is
worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker shock.

I'll keep the tags on this REI shell and try to visit EMS, Gart's, and
Boulder Ski Deals in the next few weeks to see what they have available.
The jacket I got may end up being the best that I can find, but it can't
hurt to shop around.

Anyone have any other outdoor gear shop suggestions in the
Boulder/Longmont area?


--
monique

Keep an eye out on www.campmor.com . I got a Northface Goretex Mountain
Guide Light Buzzword Jargon (or something like that...) for almost half off
list. Granted, list was close to 400. I've used it skiing, sitting in a
boat for crew, as my normal rainjacket, hiking part of the AT, and while
biking. So versatile. Two BIG vents, and in the front where they get wind
when you're moving, so they can do a HUGE amount in terms of temperature
control. Waist drawcord, bottom drawcord (although they don't have an inner
powder skirt, but thats never really been a problem for me... yay New
England!), full parka fit so it keeps that wind out nicely. Two big pockets
in front, one small one on the sleeve, one hidden one inside, one hidden one
on the breast right next to the main zipper. Zip in compatible, although
95% of the time I won't bother because it makes it easier to change layers
around without it. The hood is oversized to fit over helmets, and designed
so it turns with your head, instead of cutting off all your peripheral
vision. Not removeable, but it is stowable, and I usually just leave it out
anyway. SO nice for those rainy new england ski days. Also has more
abrasion resistant materials where pack straps go, which is nice if you
might hike in it, or ski with a bag. I think there's a women's model too;
or at least a one of the equivalent current jacket.

Problems: SUPER expensive. But hey, you get what you pay for, and I got a
decent deal.
No hand pockets. When I'm skiing, thats not a big deal, but using it as a
rain jacket its a bit annoying sometimes. I think most of the newer jackets
have hand pockets now.
Its red and black, and a number of ski patrols have really similar jackets.
When I'm using my talkabout with the remote mic/speaker, I'm occasionally
(at least 5 or 6 times in two years use) mistaken for ski patrol. Granted,
one time I was wearing my name tag from the ski area on it....

Don't be afraid to drop a little more than you want to on the shell jacket.
I use that jacket almost as much as I wear my fleece... which is a lot.
But find a good deal, they pop up a lot, especially near the end of the
season. And I know if you find a smokin' deal elsewhere you'll find
something to put that gift cert towards at REI!

Jon Bond

On 2004-01-17, Jon Bond penned:

Don't be afraid to drop a little more than you want to on the shell
jacket. I use that jacket almost as much as I wear my fleece...
which is a lot. But find a good deal, they pop up a lot, especially
near the end of the season. And I know if you find a smokin' deal
elsewhere you'll find something to put that gift cert towards at REI!


Actually, that problem sort of "worked itself out." It turns out that
when I returned the REI jacket, they put the credit on my credit card.

I feel mildly guilty, except that I've bought tons of stuff at REI, and
I've forgotten to mention my membership a few times, so I guess we're
even.

--
monique

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...

I have a 3/4 length Marmot shell. I can wear it with *all* the stuff in
sub-zero or with a long sleeve T in spring. Pockets, vents, hood, powder
skirt. It retailed for about $350. I thing you can get them in generic
brands with generic "goretex" now for around $200.

That one you got looks like it might be a little short. But you know best.

pigo