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ACL surgery - double bundle vs. single bundle



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 11th 08, 05:41 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Martino
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Posts: 2
Default ACL surgery - double bundle vs. single bundle

Tore my ACL in Big Sky last Monday :-(. Contacted some friends from home land - Poland and they all had a double bundle procedure done; versus what is common in US - a single bundle. Basically a more anatomic reconstruction which allows (supposedly) for better motion and possibly prevents some late age issues. Crazy thing is that in states almost nobody does it. The expert in the procedure - Dr. Freddie Fu from the U of Pittsburg has troubles spreading the news around the country. UW, my local clinic supposedly has been doing it but I called them and they said sorry bro but no go; the research nurse expressed her dissatisfaction with the acceptance of the new method but she mentioned that this is usually the case here; no willingness to learn newer stuff, ...... A recommended to me Dr, who does Mariners and Seahawks (major players in town) does only a single bundle. I am freaking frustrated with the lack on advance in the field in the local surgeon community and zero public awareness (local physiotherapy pros knew nothing about double bundle when asked). I check with my friends in Germany and Italy and it's a common thing there. I am still thinking if I should have a single done by the local pro or if I should travel to Pittsburg to have it done by Dr. Fu or even to Europe where I can spend not much more than my deductible here. Major concern - a surgery of this kind far from home could turn into a nightmare.
What do the others know, do, plan?
Cheers
Ian
PS. if someone has a say on the use of the biodegradable screws I'd love to hear
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  #2  
Old March 11th 08, 01:55 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Mike Treseler
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Posts: 72
Default ACL surgery - double bundle vs. single bundle

Martino wrote:
Major concern - a surgery of this kind far from
home could turn into a nightmare.


Indeed. The skiing in Pittsburgh sucks.
Get references from local skiers who have
had an ACL done and are happy with their outcome.
There are many such cases.

The ortho-doc doesn't tell you how to ski.
Don't tell him how to patch ligaments.

-- Mike Treseler
  #3  
Old March 11th 08, 02:00 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Richard Henry
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Posts: 3,756
Default ACL surgery - double bundle vs. single bundle

On Mar 11, 6:55*am, Mike Treseler wrote:
Martino wrote:
Major concern - a surgery of this kind far from
home could turn into a nightmare.


Indeed. The skiing in Pittsburgh sucks.
Get references from local skiers who have
had an ACL done and are happy with their outcome.
There are many such cases.

The ortho-doc doesn't tell you how to ski.
Don't tell him how to patch ligaments.


After he reapirs your ligamnet, he might tell you how to ski. As in
"Don't".



  #4  
Old March 11th 08, 03:49 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
The Real Bev
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Posts: 464
Default ACL surgery - double bundle vs. single bundle

Mike Treseler wrote:

Martino wrote:
Major concern - a surgery of this kind far from
home could turn into a nightmare.


Indeed. The skiing in Pittsburgh sucks.
Get references from local skiers who have
had an ACL done and are happy with their outcome.
There are many such cases.

The ortho-doc doesn't tell you how to ski.
Don't tell him how to patch ligaments.


That's only true IF you have a good doc. Unfortunately, you mostly
can't tell if you have a bad one until it's too late. My mom lost a lot
of her vision because her quack was incompetent.

--
Cheers,
Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++
"Rats cry when they hear about my life." -- Dilbert
  #5  
Old March 11th 08, 06:30 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier
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Posts: 1,233
Default ACL surgery - double bundle vs. single bundle

Martino wrote:
Tore my ACL in Big Sky last Monday :-(. Contacted some friends from
home land - Poland and they all had a double bundle procedure done;
versus what is common in US - a single bundle. Basically a more
anatomic reconstruction which allows (supposedly) for better motion and
possibly prevents some late age issues. Crazy thing is that in states
almost nobody does it. The expert in the procedure - Dr. Freddie Fu
from the U of Pittsburg has troubles spreading the news around the
country. UW, my local clinic supposedly has been doing it but I called
them and they said sorry bro but no go; the research nurse expressed her
dissatisfaction with the acceptance of the new method but she mentioned
that this is usually the case here; no willingness to learn newer stuff,
..... A recommended to me Dr, who does Mariners and Seahawks (major
players in town) does only a single bundle. I am freaking frustrated
with the lack on advance in the field in the local surgeon community and
zero public awareness (local physiotherapy pros knew nothing about
double bundle when asked). I check with my friends in Germany and Italy
and it's a common thing there. I am still thinking if I should have a
single done by the local pro or if I should travel to Pittsburg to have
it done by Dr. Fu or even to Europe where I can spend not much more than
my deductible here. Major concern - a surgery of this kind far from
home could turn into a nightmare.
What do the others know, do, plan?


Always get a second opinion. How old are you? Where are you located?
What is available? My opinion is that you should at the very least
seek the opinion of someone versed in sports medicine if not skiing
related injury.

Contact Dr. Fu for data. What's the success rate for instance, how
many years has this procedure been done? You don't want to be a
guinea pig.

And so on until you get the right answer. The reason I asked your age
is that over 40 surgery for a "simpl" ACL injury may not be indicated.
If there's other stuff, that's different, but completely severed my
ACL in 1996 and did not have it repaired. I skied from 6 weeks after
the injury. No problems at all.

Cheers
Ian
PS. if someone has a say on the use of the biodegradable screws I'd love
to hear


Screws? for a soft tissue injury?
  #6  
Old March 12th 08, 06:35 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Martino
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default ACL surgery - double bundle vs. single bundle

I signed up for the surgery with a local top guy. I decided that out of
town thing would be trouble with no complications and a disaster with. No
surgery seems like a no option to me - my knee swings to the left and right
at will. I also ski hard and prefer carving which is tough on knees) + my
muscles and not of the Arnold (young age) type.
The main complaint is the relatively little penetration of new stuff into
the US. I thought it was within the pharmaceutical market only but it
appears that it's also the procedural stuff.

BTW. Fu has done hundreds of doubles and with good success but can you judge
a success after a couple of years???

Cheers

"Mike Treseler" wrote in message
...
Martino wrote:
Major concern - a surgery of this kind far from home could turn into a
nightmare.


Indeed. The skiing in Pittsburgh sucks.
Get references from local skiers who have
had an ACL done and are happy with their outcome.
There are many such cases.

The ortho-doc doesn't tell you how to ski.
Don't tell him how to patch ligaments.

-- Mike Treseler



  #7  
Old March 12th 08, 07:46 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
BrritSki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 575
Default ACL surgery - double bundle vs. single bundle

Martino wrote:
I signed up for the surgery with a local top guy. I decided that out of
town thing would be trouble with no complications and a disaster with. No
surgery seems like a no option to me - my knee swings to the left and right
at will. I also ski hard and prefer carving which is tough on knees)


Good luck with your surgery and with getting back to skiing soon.

Have a lesson though when you do because my experience is that skiing
(big fast GS carves preferred and I'm aged 60 and overweight) is one of
the few activities that does NOT cause pain in my knees, so you may need
to adjust something.

Now walking downhill in my ski boots....
  #8  
Old March 12th 08, 01:42 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Mike Treseler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default ACL surgery - double bundle vs. single bundle

The Real Bev wrote:

That's only true IF you have a good doc. Unfortunately, you mostly
can't tell if you have a bad one until it's too late.


Unless I spend some time getting references from happy patients.

-- Mike Treseler
  #9  
Old March 12th 08, 01:50 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
The Real Bev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 464
Default ACL surgery - double bundle vs. single bundle

Mike Treseler wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:

That's only true IF you have a good doc. Unfortunately, you mostly
can't tell if you have a bad one until it's too late.


Unless I spend some time getting references from happy patients.


How do you find those? It's clearly unethical for the doc to give you a
list without the patients' permission, and he certainly wouldn't ask
unhappy people for references. You can hang out in his waiting room and
ask people, but the unhappy ones probably are either home crabbing to
their family or with their lawyers.

My mom loved the doc who overlooked her symptoms and didn't consider it
an emergency when he DID see something -- which was first noticed by the
tech, not the doc a month later.

When you squire older people to their doctors and sit in on the exams
sometimes you find out a lot more than you do when you're young and
healthy.

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== ================
"I used to be convinced that MicroSquish shipped crap because they
simply didn't give a flying **** as long as the sheep kept buying
their ****. Now, I'm convinced that they really do ship the best
products they are capable of writing, and *that's* tragic."
- John C. Randolph, about MS quality control.
  #10  
Old March 12th 08, 03:04 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier
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Posts: 1,233
Default ACL surgery - double bundle vs. single bundle

The Real Bev wrote:
Mike Treseler wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:

That's only true IF you have a good doc. Unfortunately, you mostly
can't tell if you have a bad one until it's too late.


Unless I spend some time getting references from happy patients.


How do you find those? It's clearly unethical for the doc to give you a
list without the patients' permission, and he certainly wouldn't ask
unhappy people for references. You can hang out in his waiting room and
ask people, but the unhappy ones probably are either home crabbing to
their family or with their lawyers.


Just sit around the lodge and watch for people putting
on (just one) knee brace. Chat them up and find out who
did their work.

In my world, everybody knows everybody else who has had
knee surgery. Some good, some not so good. Sometimes
complications unforeseen by the very best.

My favorite skiing buddy blew her ACL the same year I
did mine. She opted for surgery. There was a complication
with the tourniquet used to isolate blood from the
surgery site resulting in a little nerve damage. She
wears a brace just so she can feel what attitude her
leg is in. I didn't say that very well. She relies on
the brace to give sensory feed back so she can tell
how much (if any) her knee is bent.

My mom loved the doc who overlooked her symptoms and didn't consider it
an emergency when he DID see something -- which was first noticed by the
tech, not the doc a month later.

When you squire older people to their doctors and sit in on the exams
sometimes you find out a lot more than you do when you're young and
healthy.

 




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