Burton Dominant Sizing------Please help

First off, I'd just like to thank you for looking at this and
attempting to help me out.
Recently, I visited a ski/snowboarding specialty store. I looked
specifically at a Burton Dominant Slick. Based on my height, (5'9")
weight, (148lbs) and riding style (Park and Downhill riding) a board
in the 153cm-157cm area would be the best fit for me. Thusly, I
thought the 154cm model of the board was the ideal fit for me.
However, the tech-guy at the store told me that the boards handle like
they're 5cm longer than they actually are (due to either a longer
effective edge or a longer running length---I forget which he said.)
The running length of the board is 1110mm and the effective edge is
1155mm. I found that these lengths seem to be the same as most other
boards of the same length. He then stated the 150cm model would handle
more like a 155cm board ,so I should probably go with that one. The
suggested rider weight for the board is in my weight range which is
135-165 lbs, and even though the board doesn't go up to my chin (it's
about 2cm below it), he said it would handle as well as a longer board
and react on jumps like a short board. Is this board to short or the
right size? Also, I'm only 15 years old and I need a board to grow
into for next season as well. So far, except for the weight range
part(the 154cm boards' weight range is 150lbs-200lbs so it's based on
a person heavier than I am), I haven't found any evidence to back his
statement up. Did the guy somehow mess up the specs of the board or is
the 150cm model the best fit for me? Please respond quickly because if
the board is too small, I only have until 11/10/03 to take back the
board before they won't accept my return.

Sincerely,
John O.

John I would say that I don't think the tech guy knows what he's
talking about and you are right. Was the board on sale? Better have
been a great deal. From my knowledge, there are basically three things
that control the main feel of the board - the effective edge, the
stiffness, and the flex pattern. From what I've seen, the Burton
Dominant seems to say "get a LONGER board" on all of them. Let's go
through them.

Effective edge - the effective edge is essentially how much of the
board will be in contact with the snow during a carve... the longer
the edge, the more weight/force the board can support. The effective
edge for the Burton Dominant models are not particular long. My
Neversummer Evo (park/pipe board) 155 has an effective edge of 121 cm
compared to the Burton Dominant's 115.5 cm. In fact the Neversummer
Evo 151 still has an effective edge of 118 cm. I'm 5'8" 145 and I like
to ride 154-156 after 150-152 felt like it couldn't keep up with me at
higher speed (would start to chatter).

Stiffness - the stiffness as I'm defining it, is essentially a measure
of how much energy it will take to bend a board a particular amount.
It is controlled by the materials (wood, carbon fiber, foam) and
construction of the board. It is also controlled by the length of the
board, the longer the board of the same material, the more energy is
can soak up along it's entire length. If a board is not stiff enough,
it will overflex and flap when the weight and speed combination
creates too much force on it, making it wobble and chatter unstabily.
If a board is too stiff, it will not bend enough (it needs to make a
nice arcs curve for you to carve properly) and the board will feel
unwieldy. I happen to ride very aggressively and so I have a very
stiff Salomon 156 Definition as my freeride board. Most Burtons are
much softer and the Dominant is a (6 out of 10) in stiffness on the
Burton website.

Because the length of a board is a basic measure of it's stiffness and
effective edge, that is usually what is used for judging (this simply
things) what size board is good for you.

However, the stiffness along the length of the board is not uniform
most of the time. This distribution, called the flex patten also
affect how the board feels. The stiffer the nose (front) of the board
is, the easier it is to ride through choppy crud type snow, however at
the cost of a little responsiveness. The softer a board is between the
feet, the easier it is to ollie and jib with, however... at the cost
stability at higher "energy" levels (combination of rider weight and
speed). If you actually put down the length (155/156), waist(25/25.1),
effective edge (121/120) and sidecut (800/810) of my Evo and
Definition side by side. They are almost exactly the same... but the
Evo totally feels like a quick and snappy freestyle board, and the
Definition feels like a very solid and stable freeride board - it's
like night and day.

There are about 14 reviews in the link below that I've read and all of
them talk about how soft and flexy the board is especially between the
bindings This is *specifically* a specialized rail/jibbing board with
recess sidewalls and reinforced edges and base for banging on rails
(ironic since the Burton warranty doesn't cover rails or jibbing
damage) You know that right? only for park, not good for fast carves
or powder)... to me that means you will need a longer board to support
your weight.

http://www.outdoorreview.com/Snowboa...0_4193crx.aspx

My opinion:
A 154 would be good, but you probably go up to 157. It will be a
little stiff at first, but if you gain in weight and strength you
should easily handle it. I ride a Neversummer Evo 154 for park and
pipe and a very stiff Salomon 156 Definition as my freeride board. I
actually don't think the Burton Dominant is a good board for you - it
would be like riding one of those little BMX trick bikes for your
regular ride. I mean looking at it, it has RECESSED sidewalls for
rails. First that's a gimmick in my opinion (like training wheels
since you can definitely ride rails on a regular board), second it
will seriously screw you outside of the park. It would be like
deflating the tires on your bike to make landing jumps softer or
something (note I know very little about BMX bike tricks). If you have
to go with a Burton... I suggest the Custom, it's a very good standard
board... get a 152 at least. It is a bit more expensive. I happen to
like Neversummer Evo and all of the higher end Salomon boards (have
had 3 in 6 years) originally in price (should be able to get last
year's model for like 40% off). The Ride Timeless was pretty good too.
Then there's also a Donek Incline, which I'm thinking about getting

Reply or email if you have anymore questions.

(Lee) wrote in message . com...
First off, I'd just like to thank you for looking at this and
attempting to help me out.
Recently, I visited a ski/snowboarding specialty store. I looked
specifically at a Burton Dominant Slick. Based on my height, (5'9")
weight, (148lbs) and riding style (Park and Downhill riding) a board
in the 153cm-157cm area would be the best fit for me. Thusly, I
thought the 154cm model of the board was the ideal fit for me.
However, the tech-guy at the store told me that the boards handle like
they're 5cm longer than they actually are (due to either a longer
effective edge or a longer running length---I forget which he said.)
The running length of the board is 1110mm and the effective edge is
1155mm. I found that these lengths seem to be the same as most other
boards of the same length. He then stated the 150cm model would handle
more like a 155cm board ,so I should probably go with that one. The
suggested rider weight for the board is in my weight range which is
135-165 lbs, and even though the board doesn't go up to my chin (it's
about 2cm below it), he said it would handle as well as a longer board
and react on jumps like a short board. Is this board to short or the
right size? Also, I'm only 15 years old and I need a board to grow
into for next season as well. So far, except for the weight range
part(the 154cm boards' weight range is 150lbs-200lbs so it's based on
a person heavier than I am), I haven't found any evidence to back his
statement up. Did the guy somehow mess up the specs of the board or is
the 150cm model the best fit for me? Please respond quickly because if
the board is too small, I only have until 11/10/03 to take back the
board before they won't accept my return.

Sincerely,
John O.

Arvin Chang wrote:

John I would say that I don't think the tech guy knows what he's
talking about and you are right. Was the board on sale? Better have
been a great deal. From my knowledge, there are basically three things
that control the main feel of the board - the effective edge, the
stiffness, and the flex pattern. From what I've seen, the Burton
Dominant seems to say "get a LONGER board" on all of them. Let's go
through them.

Effective edge - the effective edge is essentially how much of the
board will be in contact with the snow during a carve... the longer
the edge, the more weight/force the board can support. The effective

[snip]

Great stuff, Arvin. That's service for ya!

--
IainD at ukme dot me dot uk

Lee,

First thing to remember is that the Slick is a very specialised bit of kit
made for jibbing and that's pretty much it. Therefore they are supposed to
be relatively short when compared with the 'average' size board. If
jibbings all you do and you're middling in terms of how aggresive you ride,
then (according to the specs on burton's site) you've got the right size
board for the job.

However, (surprise surprise) if you're wanting something a bit more
all-round, then I'd suggest chucking it and maybe going for the larger size
standard Dominant? Certainly the board of choice round my neck of the woods
this year, (but seeing as that is jumps/rails at the local dryslope, that's
not so much of a surprise). You'll have to ride it a bit harder to get the
best out of it, but it will certainly work as more of an all-rounder and
should have a bit of 'grow' in it.

Bottom line - if you're not 100% happy and don't just jib till it's coming
out of yer ears, I'd say ditch it and let your hard-earned fight another
day.

Hope that helps
Mike


"Lee" wrote in message
om...
First off, I'd just like to thank you for looking at this and
attempting to help me out.
Recently, I visited a ski/snowboarding specialty store. I looked
specifically at a Burton Dominant Slick. Based on my height, (5'9")
weight, (148lbs) and riding style (Park and Downhill riding) a board
in the 153cm-157cm area would be the best fit for me. Thusly, I
thought the 154cm model of the board was the ideal fit for me.
However, the tech-guy at the store told me that the boards handle like
they're 5cm longer than they actually are (due to either a longer
effective edge or a longer running length---I forget which he said.)
The running length of the board is 1110mm and the effective edge is
1155mm. I found that these lengths seem to be the same as most other
boards of the same length. He then stated the 150cm model would handle
more like a 155cm board ,so I should probably go with that one. The
suggested rider weight for the board is in my weight range which is
135-165 lbs, and even though the board doesn't go up to my chin (it's
about 2cm below it), he said it would handle as well as a longer board
and react on jumps like a short board. Is this board to short or the
right size? Also, I'm only 15 years old and I need a board to grow
into for next season as well. So far, except for the weight range
part(the 154cm boards' weight range is 150lbs-200lbs so it's based on
a person heavier than I am), I haven't found any evidence to back his
statement up. Did the guy somehow mess up the specs of the board or is
the 150cm model the best fit for me? Please respond quickly because if
the board is too small, I only have until 11/10/03 to take back the
board before they won't accept my return.

Sincerely,
John O.

(Arvin Chang) wrote in message . com...

The Ride Timeless was pretty good too.
Then there's also a Donek Incline, which I'm thinking about getting

Reply or email if you have anymore questions.

Arvin,
Have you ridden either of these boards? The Ride Timeless looks
interesting, with patterned flex cut-outs on top of the board. The
sales guy was talking about how the cutouts apply the force along the
edge of the board differently than a flat top surface.

I have a 1999 Burton Johan 163 (stiff, aggressive freeride) and a 2000
Sims Search (freeride? picked up for $100) The Sims is much more
flexy between the feet, so I use it for jumps and park.

I rode an Airwalk A1 briefly once. It was honeycombed, synthetic, and
very active. Fun for jumps, jibbing, and park. Probably flaps out at
high speed. Very light. :-)

Jason

(Jason M.) wrote in message om...
(Arvin Chang) wrote in message . com...

The Ride Timeless was pretty good too.
Then there's also a Donek Incline, which I'm thinking about getting

Reply or email if you have anymore questions.

Arvin,
Have you ridden either of these boards? The Ride Timeless looks
interesting, with patterned flex cut-outs on top of the board. The
sales guy was talking about how the cutouts apply the force along the
edge of the board differently than a flat top surface.


I rode the 2001-2002 Ride Timeless 152 for half a day. I would have
probably liked a 156 better, but even at 152 it was a solid performer,
stiffer than your usual board which gave it decent hold and stability
at higher speeds on hard pack (I didn't blast down the slopes with it
though). The board felt very light and responsive (although the 156
might be a little tougher). I ride very stiff boards though, so you're
experience might be different. Check out:
http://www.outdoorreview.com/pscSnow...9_4194crx.aspx
for more reviews.

As for the Donek Incline... well not yet, but I just put in an order
for an Incline 155! One of the neat things they have a is a non-linear
waist to edge thickness (salesman spiel here), most boards are thick
in the middle and taper linearly to a thin edge. The problem with this
is that rigidity increases more than linearly with thickness, making
the middle part of the board MUCH stiffer than the the tips... that
leads to most of the center absorbing more flex than it should and the
weak tips flapping around... Donek supposedly has designed a
thickeness and flex pattern that spreads out you weight more evenly
along the entire length, given you a more even feel and flex. Whether
this is true or not remains to be seen... but they are so confidant
about their boards that they offer a 30-day guarantee (you can ride it
as many times as you want) and even offer free demos (you pay for
shipping it back to them).

--Arvin