What sort of layering for low temperatures?

[snip]

One of the other posts mentioned brynje mesh underwear.
www.reliableracing.com has it in their current catalog (don't know if it
is on line though)
gr

I've found Brynje mesh in cycling stuff before (bit of a cyclist myself, but
haven't used Brynje - or any other, much to my all to frequent dicomfort in
the winter!) Thanks for the pointer - an area I hadn't thought about too
much (until now)!

Gareth

Gareth Crawshaw wrote:

After all that has been said, it seems that waterproof is out then...

As something to wear when you don't /need/ stormproofing it would be
less comfortable than something lighter and not formally waterproof, I'd
think.

can get a refund on that Rab - kinda misled myself looking for a jack of all
trades, something for the mountains as well...!

But if you'll be out in the open (as opposed to forests) it may well be
worth having along for the stormproofing, even if you're not wearing it
as your default kit. On my upcoming trip I'll have a storm shell at
last with me in the trip luggage, even if I leave it in the chalet most
days.

although I'm hoping not to meet the sort of winds in Norway
that I meet on a Scottish peak!

Having done 24 Km into a gale force the whole day on our last day of hut
to hut last year I know it can get just as bad, and a storm coat would
be an asset if this happens to you. At least on our nasty day it wasn't
actually snowing, and if it was I would have been wearing my shell
jacket with the storm hood up. Goggles are also something to have along
for this sort of thing, even though they're a bit over the top for
typical track work. They can also be nice to help avoid freezing face
syndrome if it's a particularly cold day and you have a downhill schuss
to do.

Your day to day excursions will determine how much you need to take with
you. For track I prefer to take a bumbag with wax, drink, snack, spare
gloves and hat and an extra windshell, but that's on the understanding
that I'm within relatively easy reach of the start if it goes wrong or I
want to change kit. Longer and/or more remote trips will need a
rucksack and sensible quantities of Just In Case kit.

something that has been an issue with some of the trekking I've done in the
past - I don't suppose for a second that xc is going to be any less
demanding!

It's more important, if anything. Downhills don't take much
cardiovascular effort so you won't be generating much internal heat and
the extra windchill and basically low temps to start with means that
everything cools off /very/ substantially, so any sweat that can
condense is far more likely to than is the case with walking downhill in
the UK, and because of the basically lower temperatures more of a
problem when it does. Though at least the degree to which you sweat on
the flats and uphills is optional to a degree, as you can fall back to a
relaxed shuffle or steady plod if you like, but if you're Going For It
(and I'd urge you to try to for at least some of the time, as the more
effort you can put in the more return you get in the form of increased
glide, which in turn makes it Much More Fun) then you'll be a monster
heat engine. I'm still not sure how I got away with tracksters, a light
base and an ultrafleece jacket at -20C, but I wasn't cold until I stopped!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Gareth Crawshaw wrote:

Just had a nose around your website... Remembering the days I used to
have a great 00 layout and was awed by a friend's N guage (20 odd
year ago now - I've still got the track!), but 2mm? Excellent! Must
take a huge amount of patience to create the models!

About 20 years in my case :-)

Anyway, thanks for your hat and glove tips Nigel,

One more - when taking gloves off (say at a food stop), put them inside your
clothes (chest area) to keep warm and to dry out.
Much nicer to put on warm gloves than cold ones which have been cermonially
frozen ontop of ski poles :-)



- Nigel


--
NC - Webmaster for http://www.2mm.org.uk/
Replies to newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

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In article ,
Gareth Crawshaw wrote:

"Booker C. Bense"
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Nov.23.04@telemark .slac.stanford.edu wrote


After all that has been said, it seems that waterproof is out
then...

_ Well, It doesn't work well for me, but I know lot's of people
that feel otherwise. From what I've read Event seems to be
perhaps the most breathable of the various waterproof fabrics
around. My experience is that Goretex et al work better the
colder and drier it gets. And as a completely windproof
lightweight layer, they work very well.


Hope I
can get a refund on that Rab - kinda misled myself looking for a jack of all
trades, something for the mountains as well...! Still, it is lightweight and
will get use, but the idea of not having to wear it in favour of some of the
things that you have suggested is appealing. Breathability is always
something that has been an issue with some of the trekking I've done in the
past - I don't suppose for a second that xc is going to be any less
demanding!

_ Sounds like you might be better of with some Pertex garments
then.

_ Booker C. Bense


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In article ,
gr wrote:
Gareth Crawshaw wrote:
Off to Norway over the new year for my first ever bit of xc skiing... been
told to expect average temperatures round -10C and have been looking for a
suitable jacket and clothing bits and pieces... I do a fair amount of
walking so I'm used to the whole layering thing, but not generally in
temperatures as low as -10 and below... Anyone here able to share
layering/clothing tips (esp the upper body) to cope with whatever Norway
might throw at me? (I'm going to Rondablikk if that's any help... I'm told
that extreme conditions can see it go down to -25)

Thanks,

Gareth


One of the other posts mentioned brynje mesh underwear.
www.reliableracing.com has it in their current catalog (don't know if it
is on line though)

_ It's on their website, as far as I know it's the only place
to get it in the USA. Well worth the money IMHO, they last
forever.

http://tinyurl.com/3pvde

_ Booker C. Bense

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[ Gareth Crawshaw ]

"Booker C. Bense"
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Nov.22.04@telemark. slac.stanford.edu wrote
in message ...
In article ,
Gareth Crawshaw wrote:
Off to Norway over the new year for my first ever bit of xc skiing... been

Late reply -- I've been off vacating in Tanzania, of all places -- but
I thought a couple comments from a native would be welcome anyway
(even though Pete knows Norway pretty well).

That's a new/interesting twist... I had been thinking of a layer system with
an Event shell (if that's the terms - a Rab Latok Alpine) but was concerned
about the lightness/wind-proofiness of it... Is there a benefit to be gained
from putting on a fleece over a "layering system" with such a shell?

As you seem to have concluded, you shouldn't need a waterproof shell.
If Rondablikk is where I think it is, the weather is pretty stable.
The Western Norwegian mountains see rapid weather changes, but the
Eastern have much more stable conditions, and storms are few and far
between. I'd use a cotton shell over wool underwear; the important
thing is that the shell should be windproof, but much more breathable
than current waterproof fabrics. I'd also bring a thin wool or fleece
sweater for cold days, and a thick fleece or down jacket for breaks.
Also thick mittens, and extra hat. I'm a bit of a furnace when I'm
moving though, so you might need more insulation than me.

What is getting very prevalent in Norway for XC skiing shells is
non-waterproof polyester or polyester/cotton blends. Microfiber and
similar can be the right thing. But I'm sticking with the traditional
cotton anorak when I don't need my Goretex. :-)

I saw that olympic athletes tend to balk at about -18 to -20... I think I
might just listen to the advice of the more expeienced leading me there.
Hopefully they'll say "-12? Maybe another day" (or something!)

For me (and this is the main reason also for athletes) keeping warm
isn't the main issue in -20C, but rather that air that cold hurts the
lungs when doing hard exercion (thereby breathing hard). Take it easy
and have enough clothes, and it shouldn't be a problem. I have no
problems with -30C at low exercion levels, but I woulnd't want to try
to run/ski at top speed at that temperature. The main body is easy to
dress warm, it's toes, fingers and the face you have to be careful
with.

[1]- Pick your polyester long underwear of choice...
Patagonia makes nice if expensive stuff. I like
the Norwegian Bryjne Fishnet stuff myself, but that is very
hard to find.

Not hard to find in Norway. :-) I haven't used Brynje much, but some
people swear by it.


Martin
--
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
-Paul Graham, On Lisp

"Martin Thornquist" wrote in message
...
[ Gareth Crawshaw ]

"Booker C. Bense"
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Nov.22.04@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote
in message ...
In article ,
Gareth Crawshaw wrote:
Off to Norway over the new year for my first ever bit of xc skiing...
been

Late reply -- I've been off vacating in Tanzania, of all places -- but
I thought a couple comments from a native would be welcome anyway
(even though Pete knows Norway pretty well).

As you seem to have concluded, you shouldn't need a waterproof shell.
If Rondablikk is where I think it is, the weather is pretty stable.
The Western Norwegian mountains see rapid weather changes, but the
Eastern have much more stable conditions, and storms are few and far
between. I'd use a cotton shell over wool underwear; the important
thing is that the shell should be windproof, but much more breathable
than current waterproof fabrics. I'd also bring a thin wool or fleece
sweater for cold days, and a thick fleece or down jacket for breaks.
Also thick mittens, and extra hat. I'm a bit of a furnace when I'm
moving though, so you might need more insulation than me.

What is getting very prevalent in Norway for XC skiing shells is
non-waterproof polyester or polyester/cotton blends. Microfiber and
similar can be the right thing. But I'm sticking with the traditional
cotton anorak when I don't need my Goretex. :-)

Thanks for the advice... I've been taking advice from various people all who
seem to agree with what you're saying... I've a nice polartec fleece to keep
the wind and chill off, and two inner shells. My main concern has been
getting too warm and ending up damp inside the layers, so what I have all
ought to wick nicely to keep me dry. Only thing left now is something to
keep my toes warm! I'm leaving my goretex behind - it's great for mountain
tops but doesn't give me as much freedom/movement as my nice new non-goretex
jacket (eVent which I've heard good things about -
waterproof/windproof/breathable, so we shall see...)

Thanks again.

Gareth

[ Gareth Crawshaw ]

My main concern has been getting too warm and ending up damp inside
the layers, so what I have all ought to wick nicely to keep me dry.

Yeah, that's a main concern. Just keeping warm isn't really that hard
as long as it's dry and not too windy. The trick is to use breathable
fabrics and be vigilant at adjusting the layers.

Only thing left now is something to keep my toes warm!

Being on skis helps a lot actually compared to walking in snow. I
seldom get cold with just one or two pairs of thick wool socks and ski
boots. It's good to bring a dry set of socks, though, in case you get
damp and cold.


Martin
--
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
-Paul Graham, On Lisp