Do Tua Mega's + Merrell Ultras cut the mustard?

I'm going the cheapo route to backcountry skiing by acquiring a pair
of used Tua Mega's which I intend to use for hiking up Mt St Helens,
Mt Adams, and skinning up assorted slopes on Mt Hood. I've also
acquired a pair of leather Merrell boots with 2 buckles, which I think
makes them the Ultra's; if not, my mistake.

I've only been telemarking a total of 4 days, with my first being a
full day lesson, but I'm feeling fairly confident in plastic boots
with heavy duty skis; I can pull off tele turns pretty well, but am
happy to have parallels at my disposal when I'm in over my head. I'm
wondering whether I'll have the same luxury, i.e. the safety of a
parallel turn, with leathers or if I need to shell out the money for
plastic boots. I've been renting Crispi CX-4's (the ancestors of the
CX-A's) which seem to offer plenty of power for the slope angles with
which I'm comfortable.

So far, my crowning achievement came my last day out at the end of the
day. After using the heavy gear all day long, I brought at my NNN-BC
boots and Fischer E99 skis and rode the lift up to some blue runs. I
was amazed to see how well I could actually pull off turns with this
lightweight equipment once I had figured out the technique with the
heavyweight stuff. This is the real reason why I've been learning to
telemark anyhow, to be able to enjoy myself on my touring gear. The
other thing I noticed was that it was a great way to reinforce proper
technique. I found that I really needed to weight the ball of the
foot on my trailing ski, and get a nice twist in my hips to hold a
nice edge. Also, lightweight boots and skis with patterned bases felt
great after slipping around and having to herringbone up the slightest
of inclines. I enjoy the effort to get out and the up the hill almost
as much as I do getting down them. Being able to wander around the
area was a liberating experience.

Thanks for your input,
Victor

(Victor) wrote:
I'm going the cheapo route to backcountry skiing [snip..]

This is to be commended!!

by acquiring a pair of used Tua Mega's which I intend to use for hiking up
Mt St Helens, Mt Adams, and skinning up assorted slopes on Mt Hood. I've
also acquired a pair of leather Merrell boots with 2 buckles, which I think
makes them the Ultra's; if not, my mistake.

I *think* but am not sure, that the old Ultra was a pure lace-up boot,
all leather on the outside with internal plastic stiffeners in the
heel. Comparable to the Scarpa Wasatch or Asolo Extreme.
If the boots you are looking at have a plastic foot frame like
this ebay wonder (http://tinyurl.com/2k72a), then the boot
you are looking at is the FTS Fuzion.

The Fuzion will be somewhat comarable to the Excursion class boots --
enough boot to get you going with the Mega, imo, provided you don't
ask alot from the combo, especially on hard snow. A note of warning,
while the plastic bottomed Merrell boots gave good performance for
their weight, some had fit problems in the heel because of the
plastic.

If the boots you are looking at have a norwegian welt, they will tour
like a dream but will probably be to noodly to control the Megas. One
way out may be to put a plate binding like the Voile VP-II on to add
torsional umph, but honestly, I think that would be money better spent
on burlier boots.

So far, my crowning achievement came my last day out at the end of the
day. After using the heavy gear all day long, I brought at my NNN-BC
boots and Fischer E99 skis and rode the lift up to some blue runs. I
was amazed to see how well I could actually pull off turns with this
lightweight equipment once I had figured out the technique with the
heavyweight stuff. This is the real reason why I've been learning to
telemark anyhow, to be able to enjoy myself on my touring gear.

You've found the secret. Tele skills ramp up fast when you are on
plastic and wide skis but you give up mobility.

I've tossed up some loose thoughts on boot/ski combos he
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/Dirt...ick-picks.html

More detailed discussions are on my main page.

Victor, holler and let me know if anything there is helpful or
confusing. My biases and opinions only, so take with a grain
of salt.



-- Dave
==============================================
"It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts
without the proper equipment."
Aristotle, Politics, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
==============================================

I'm going the cheapo route to backcountry skiing by acquiring a pair
of used Tua Mega's which I intend to use for hiking up Mt St Helens,
Mt Adams, and skinning up assorted slopes on Mt Hood. I've also
acquired a pair of leather Merrell boots with 2 buckles, which I think
makes them the Ultra's; if not, my mistake.

Me too and I'm very happy with the choice. Been tele'ing for 10 years
now using boots very much like yours (leather laced with two buckles)
and standard alpine skis (K2 Extremes) at primarily Portland, OR based
trips. They've performed well in the woods, on super steeps, and on
long not-so-steep terrain, including ski areas (for example, way upper
Heather Canyon). It's lightweight and comfy.

I've only been telemarking a total of 4 days, with my first being a
full day lesson, but I'm feeling fairly confident in plastic boots
with heavy duty skis; I can pull off tele turns pretty well, but am
happy to have parallels at my disposal when I'm in over my head. I'm
wondering whether I'll have the same luxury, i.e. the safety of a
parallel turn, with leathers or if I need to shell out the money for
plastic boots. I've been renting Crispi CX-4's (the ancestors of the
CX-A's) which seem to offer plenty of power for the slope angles with
which I'm comfortable.

My personal feeling is skill can overcome most equipment deficiencies
(to a point, of course). If it were my decision, I'd lick lightweight
to gain easy access to backcountry.

I'm in a quandary: Need new skis and I'd like to just replace my K2
Extremes (190cm) with identical skis. (Can anyone help?). I know I
*don't* want the fat skis and/or plastic boots.

So far, my crowning achievement came my last day out at the end of the
day. After using the heavy gear all day long, I brought at my NNN-BC
boots and Fischer E99 skis and rode the lift up to some blue runs. I
was amazed to see how well I could actually pull off turns with this
lightweight equipment once I had figured out the technique with the
heavyweight stuff. This is the real reason why I've been learning to
telemark anyhow, to be able to enjoy myself on my touring gear. The
other thing I noticed was that it was a great way to reinforce proper
technique. I found that I really needed to weight the ball of the
foot on my trailing ski, and get a nice twist in my hips to hold a
nice edge. Also, lightweight boots and skis with patterned bases felt
great after slipping around and having to herringbone up the slightest
of inclines. I enjoy the effort to get out and the up the hill almost
as much as I do getting down them. Being able to wander around the
area was a liberating experience.

"Locked heel" parallel turns are easy once you learn to keep the
slight heel pressure on.

JJS

(John Speth) wrote:
I'm in a quandary: Need new skis and I'd like to just replace my K2
Extremes (190cm) with identical skis. (Can anyone help?). I know I
*don't* want the fat skis and/or plastic boots.

Looks like Evolution has been dumping of old stock of their Ruby
Mountain (81/60/70) on ebay. These will be narrower and softer.

You see Tua Montets on the used board at TelemarkTips.com all
the time. These will be closer to the profile of your old Extremes but
will have a rounder flex in the tail.

I have some of the last straight K2 5500s sitting in my garage in a
200. They're in great shape and will be very close to the old Extreme
both in profile and flex (assuming the Extreme is the ski I'm
remembering). The 5500s have something like a 86/64/75 profile.
But honestly, I find them to be pretty tail stiff and heavy for tele,
especially with lighter boots.

I would think some of those Ruby Mtns or some old straight Tuas would
be better in just about every way. Still, I'd be happy to talk a
deal.



-- Dave
==============================================
"It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts
without the proper equipment."
Aristotle, Politics, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
==============================================

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In article ,
Victor wrote:
I'm going the cheapo route to backcountry skiing by acquiring a pair
of used Tua Mega's which I intend to use for hiking up Mt St Helens,
Mt Adams, and skinning up assorted slopes on Mt Hood. I've also
acquired a pair of leather Merrell boots with 2 buckles, which I think
makes them the Ultra's; if not, my mistake.

_ Bindings can make a big difference with that setup. The more
torsional control you get out of the binding the less you need
from the boot. I would recommend the Voile plate binding, but I
don't have enough miles on them yet to decide whether they are
tough enough for lots of BC skiing. They add a little weight,
but make soft boot skiing much easier. You might want to look
at the BD bindings where the cable goes under the boot.


I've only been telemarking a total of 4 days, with my first being a
full day lesson, but I'm feeling fairly confident in plastic boots
with heavy duty skis; I can pull off tele turns pretty well, but am
happy to have parallels at my disposal when I'm in over my head. I'm
wondering whether I'll have the same luxury, i.e. the safety of a
parallel turn, with leathers or if I need to shell out the money for
plastic boots.

_ You'll need to learn a slightly different parallel technique,
but I did tours for years with just a parallel turn on leather
boots , three pins and E99's. Basically, you need to ski two
footed and really concentrate on flexing your ankles and keeping
your weight centered. I think a parallel turn is actually easier
on pretty much everything that slides. Telemarks are a lot of fun
and marginally superior in some conditions, but if you can tele
with them you can do parallel turns with them.


So far, my crowning achievement came my last day out at the end of the
day. After using the heavy gear all day long, I brought at my NNN-BC
boots and Fischer E99 skis and rode the lift up to some blue runs. I
was amazed to see how well I could actually pull off turns with this
lightweight equipment once I had figured out the technique with the
heavyweight stuff. This is the real reason why I've been learning to
telemark anyhow, to be able to enjoy myself on my touring gear. The
other thing I noticed was that it was a great way to reinforce proper
technique. I found that I really needed to weight the ball of the
foot on my trailing ski, and get a nice twist in my hips to hold a
nice edge. Also, lightweight boots and skis with patterned bases felt
great after slipping around and having to herringbone up the slightest
of inclines. I enjoy the effort to get out and the up the hill almost
as much as I do getting down them. Being able to wander around the
area was a liberating experience.


_ IMHO, that's the way to go. Plastic to learn, lightweight to
refine. In my experience, heavy gear is great for learning and
getting the basics down. Once you know what to do, light gear is
great for refining your skills as it's less tolerant of technique
sloppiness. Switching back and forth during the season will
improve your skiing for both kinds of gear. In particular, the parallel
turn technique you learn with light gear is extremely useful with
heavy gear in difficult snow. Even with stiff alpine boots,
learning to flex and ski with your ankles can make a big
difference. It's very difficult to learn to do this unless you
ski on lighter gear every once in a while[1].

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]- You can practice the same thing skiing with your boots
unbuckled, but that takes a lot of discipline to do more than
a run or two.

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In article ,
John Speth wrote:


I'm in a quandary: Need new skis and I'd like to just replace my K2
Extremes (190cm) with identical skis. (Can anyone help?). I know I
*don't* want the fat skis and/or plastic boots.


_ I answered this already last month. You really want the Fischer
Boundless in a waxable version. They are hard to find and
relatively expensive, but you will love them.

_ Booker C. Bense

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On 15-Apr-2004,
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Apr.15.04@telemark. slac.stanford.edu wrote:

n article ,
Victor wrote:
I'm going the cheapo route to backcountry skiing by acquiring a pair
of used Tua Mega's which I intend to use for hiking up Mt St Helens,
Mt Adams, and skinning up assorted slopes on Mt Hood. I've also
acquired a pair of leather Merrell boots with 2 buckles, which I think
makes them the Ultra's; if not, my mistake.

I skied the old MEgas (there were two iterations, as I recall) for a season
or two using Asolo Snowfields, lower and softer than the Merrell's you're
describing, and it was a great combination. Lots of newer skis beat the
Megas, but when they came out they were a real revelation to me. I used
that boot-ski combo with the old Pitbull, then three or four pairs of
Raineys while the welded toepiece problems got worked out. You don't need a
footplate binding to make the boot-ski combo work, just a cable. As someone
pointed out, technique overcomes gear limitations, and really the boots you
describe, if I identify them correctly, are higher and stiffer than the T3s
I went to when my old snowfields started to hurt my feet. I recall the BD
rep at teh time telling me the T3 was only suitable for skiing in meadows,
but they were plenty of boot for skiing steep bumps on hard snow or deep
powder, on a series of TUA skis, and with assorted cable bindings. I broke
lots of bindings. I loaned the Megas to a friend who was still skiing his
old Snowfields, and he broke the skis in great dry backcountry powder(well,
he was on them when they broke, but I had been skiing a lot of bumps in them
for a long time).

Anyway, you'll have a great time on the setup, though you haven't mentioned
what bindings you're going with--Hammerheads are great, for example . . .

HAppy skiing: it was snowing here in SE Washington this morning . . .

bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Apr.15.04@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote:
_ I answered this already last month. You really want the Fischer
Boundless in a waxable version. They are hard to find and
relatively expensive, but you will love them.

With leather boots?

I'm not the best skier, so this is to be taken with a grain of salt,
but find that control on firmer snow goes all to pieces with anything
above a 65mm waist when I'm skiing leathers. And in good snow, I feel
ok with something more along the lines of a 90/70/80 profile (ex
Outtabound). I generally can't handle something as wide and shapely as
a Boundless with leathers.

NOTE: While I've skied plenty of skis of similar girth, I've not skied
the Boundless specifically, so maybe its super soft or has some turn
o'matic technology in it.

NOTE 2: I suck compared to many skiers, so a talented skier could
get away pushing a wider ski with floppy boots better than I could.



-- Dave
==============================================
"It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts
without the proper equipment."
Aristotle, Politics, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
==============================================

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
pinnah wrote:
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Apr.15.04@telemark .slac.stanford.edu
wrote:
_ I answered this already last month. You really want the Fischer
Boundless in a waxable version. They are hard to find and
relatively expensive, but you will love them.

With leather boots?

- - I ski them with Alpina NNN/BC 2500's. Leather NNN/BC boots, but
they do have a plastic cuff. With leather boots and a cable
binding I think you'd be okay.


I'm not the best skier, so this is to be taken with a grain of salt,
but find that control on firmer snow goes all to pieces with anything
above a 65mm waist when I'm skiing leathers. And in good snow, I feel
ok with something more along the lines of a 90/70/80 profile (ex
Outtabound). I generally can't handle something as wide and shapely as
a Boundless with leathers.

_ It's not that wide, 98/69/88. A bit wider than the K2
Extremes, but lengthwise it has a very similar flex and
it won't noodle out after a couple seasons like the foam
core extreme.


NOTE: While I've skied plenty of skis of similar girth, I've not skied
the Boundless specifically, so maybe its super soft or has some turn
o'matic technology in it.

_ They have a very round flex, but are torsionally very
stiff. The problem with a lot of wider skis is that either
they are too soft torsionally or too stiff lengthwise. You
need a ski that will bend but not twist. Torsionally soft
skis are great in powder, but stink on the hard pack. Skis
that are too stiff will be okay on the hardpack, but
won't bend to rise up in the powder. The Fischer S-Bounds
skis really seem to get this mix really well IMHO.


NOTE 2: I suck compared to many skiers, so a talented skier could
get away pushing a wider ski with floppy boots better than I could.


_ Well, If I remember correctly, the guy that want's new Extremes
live in the PNW with lots of heavy wet snow. Wider is better.

_ Booker C. Bense

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To all who responded above, thanks! Dave, enjoyed your website.
Since I'm just
getting started, it's always nice to have people with actual
experience provide
a sanity check.

I skied the old MEgas (there were two iterations, as I recall) for a season
or two using Asolo Snowfields, lower and softer than the Merrell's you're
describing, and it was a great combination. Lots of newer skis beat the
Megas, but when they came out they were a real revelation to me. I used
that boot-ski combo with the old Pitbull, then three or four pairs of
Raineys while the welded toepiece problems got worked out. You don't need a
footplate binding to make the boot-ski combo work, just a cable. As someone

Thanks for the input and sharing actual experience with similar gear.
I'll give it a
go with the 3-pin and cable set-up that is already mounted, then I'll
form an opinion.

pointed out, technique overcomes gear limitations, and really the boots you
describe, if I identify them correctly, are higher and stiffer than the T3s
I went to when my old snowfields started to hurt my feet. I recall the BD
rep at teh time telling me the T3 was only suitable for skiing in meadows,

Suitability, it seems, is in the eye of the beholder. I got some
pretty odd looks at
the area from the abundance of snowboarders trying to figure their own
skills out.

but they were plenty of boot for skiing steep bumps on hard snow or deep
powder, on a series of TUA skis, and with assorted cable bindings. I broke
lots of bindings. I loaned the Megas to a friend who was still skiing his

I'll be sure to carry extra cables...

I enjoy poring over the archives in this newsgroup, perhaps some day
I'll have
something constructive to contribute.

Victor