Anyone carry pepper spray?

Okay, so not exactly a skiing question, but more related to training.

Anyone here carry pepper spray when out training, especially cycling? Not so
much for dogs ... I'll either spray some Gatorade on them or wack them with my
pump ... but more for when encountering rowdy kids just starting their summer
vacation, have had a few too many cans of beer, and getting just a little too
abusive while half hanging out of the window of their friend's car. (I usually
feel pretty safe when I have my ski poles in my hands with nice sharp carbide
tips!).

Had such an encounter tonight while out riding about 10:30pm (sometimes 'ya
gotta ride whenever you can). Now, I'm a big guy (6'5" and 200+ lbs) and
normally don't get harrassed, but every once and a while I come across some
buzzed social bottom feeder feeling brave and is ready to take on the 'faggy
bicyclist'. My normal reaction is to flip them the finger, or give them a
stream of expletives and some suggestions of physical impossible feats ...
tonight's encounter ended with a few words and the finger. but I fear that some
hot night, when I'm out riding, I'll come across someone looking for a fight
and I'm thinking that the full water bottle I launch, zinging off their car
will just entice them more and I'm going to need an edge (something legal) as
they corner me into the curb (I know, I know ... hop it!).

Anyone carry pepper spray? Ever use it? What kind?

Thanks.

jw
Milwaukee
p.s. normally, I'll try to avoid confrontation, but after getting honked,
chopped, and just about run down over the coarse of a workout, I tend to loose
my patience. :^]

Wisconsin is a great state because you can buy some excellent
fireworks... I'd suggest carrying a few bottle rockets, roman candles
or black cat firecrackers. Next time they hassle you, launch a bottle
rocket into their car or truck. This should solve the problem...

Jay Tegeder
"On the podium if the right people don't show up!" JT



(J999w) wrote in message ...
Okay, so not exactly a skiing question, but more related to training.

Anyone here carry pepper spray when out training, especially cycling? Not so
much for dogs ... I'll either spray some Gatorade on them or wack them with my
pump ... but more for when encountering rowdy kids just starting their summer
vacation, have had a few too many cans of beer, and getting just a little too
abusive while half hanging out of the window of their friend's car. (I usually
feel pretty safe when I have my ski poles in my hands with nice sharp carbide
tips!).

Had such an encounter tonight while out riding about 10:30pm (sometimes 'ya
gotta ride whenever you can). Now, I'm a big guy (6'5" and 200+ lbs) and
normally don't get harrassed, but every once and a while I come across some
buzzed social bottom feeder feeling brave and is ready to take on the 'faggy
bicyclist'. My normal reaction is to flip them the finger, or give them a
stream of expletives and some suggestions of physical impossible feats ...
tonight's encounter ended with a few words and the finger. but I fear that some
hot night, when I'm out riding, I'll come across someone looking for a fight
and I'm thinking that the full water bottle I launch, zinging off their car
will just entice them more and I'm going to need an edge (something legal) as
they corner me into the curb (I know, I know ... hop it!).

Anyone carry pepper spray? Ever use it? What kind?

Thanks.

jw
Milwaukee
p.s. normally, I'll try to avoid confrontation, but after getting honked,
chopped, and just about run down over the coarse of a workout, I tend to loose
my patience. :^]

On two occasions I have almost run over black bears when running on the
trails at our local ski club. On both occasions my dog ran the bear off.

Now I usually carry a can of bear spray when running back country trails. I
have never actually needed to use it though.

Scott Elliot
Kelowna, Canada

p.s. The label on the can distinctly states it is not to be used on people
or domestic animals. The idiots who are hassling you probably are just
smart enough to qualify as domestic animals. I can think of no real reason
to escalate an unpleasant situation by giving the bozo a reason to find a
better weapon for the next confrontation.

"J999w" wrote in message
...
Okay, so not exactly a skiing question, but more related to training.

Anyone here carry pepper spray when out training, especially cycling? Not
so
much for dogs ... I'll either spray some Gatorade on them or wack them
with my
pump ... but more for when encountering rowdy kids just starting their
summer
vacation, have had a few too many cans of beer, and getting just a little
too
abusive while half hanging out of the window of their friend's car. (I
usually
feel pretty safe when I have my ski poles in my hands with nice sharp
carbide
tips!).

Had such an encounter tonight while out riding about 10:30pm (sometimes
'ya
gotta ride whenever you can). Now, I'm a big guy (6'5" and 200+ lbs) and
normally don't get harrassed, but every once and a while I come across
some
buzzed social bottom feeder feeling brave and is ready to take on the
'faggy
bicyclist'. My normal reaction is to flip them the finger, or give them a
stream of expletives and some suggestions of physical impossible feats ...
tonight's encounter ended with a few words and the finger. but I fear that
some
hot night, when I'm out riding, I'll come across someone looking for a
fight
and I'm thinking that the full water bottle I launch, zinging off their
car
will just entice them more and I'm going to need an edge (something legal)
as
they corner me into the curb (I know, I know ... hop it!).

Anyone carry pepper spray? Ever use it? What kind?

Thanks.

jw
Milwaukee
p.s. normally, I'll try to avoid confrontation, but after getting honked,
chopped, and just about run down over the coarse of a workout, I tend to
loose
my patience. :^]

I have it but haven't carried while training.

Yeah, reacting to the blutos is a totally reflex thing many times. But
it sure is STUPID.

Actually if you really want to egg them on, don't do a thing.

But I suppose if someone wants to fight they'll fight.

I do carry a metal-head pump on my bike, the kind of levers and pointy
flanges.

Ya gotta worry about running (or chasing) with cleats, tho, or have
tough bare feet when you kick em off.

It's just really really dumb to respond to strangers in any way, but
what can ya do, sometimes you react before you can think.

At least twice I've known really tough, strong, fighter biker
dudes---former boxers, etc.---just get thrashed by motorists, whacked
by tire-iron, etc. A fight is one thing but who wants to LOSE a fight.
Well, it'll hurt win or lose, for days. Even a sprain is just an
annoying thing. How is a bluto worth days of misery?

But do I learn? Only a little. Awhile ago a passenger tried to door me
while I was riding. I caught em at a light and emptied my water bottle
into their open sun roof. That was fun. Very satisfying. Escape on
sidewalks, doubling around, was easy. But...

The guys who lose out on their payback stories probably don't post
much about it. Man, I've gone running right at a group of 4 guys who
stopped and got out. Not too smart but I figured full charge or
nothing. They hightailed it. Well, I had my pump. Thankfully a
powercompany truck with big helpful guys also pulled over shortly
thereafter. But yikes.

Anyway, I think that a self-defense fannypack is a good idea. Load it
full of goodies. Spray, whistle, cell, disposable cam, knife...I'll
get a concealed weapon permit, too, one of these days.

Crazy stuff happens out there. I hope I'm mellower now that I have
little kids. So far I have been. (I remember getting maced once at 5
a.m. I had a mechanical and was fixing it and someone pulled up and I
looked up into SPRAY. That sucked. I was kinda hoping it wasn't acid.)

Possibly the best insurance these days is a FLAG somewhere on your
bike or apparel.

I have indeed noticed MUCH LESS motorist hostility since 9/11 in
general! And FLAGS seem to really help.

I also think that a VISIBLE cell on your apparel is helpful. --Or a
visible holster...that would probably work.

If Prez Bush would come out and say that saving gas is patriotic (or
even that saving money is!) then it'd be a done deal.

--JP

I started carrying a cell phone with the little camera. It seems to
have a real deterrent factor before the confrontation gets rolling.
I've only pulled my cell phone once, and then didn't get it dialed
before the car (kids again) peeled out.

I do miss my old full length zefal pump. I broke a Silca over a chasing
fido's head, which kept him from taking a plug out of my calf. For the
most part, a little blast from the bottle and 'STAY' does confuse most dogs.

OTOH, I had one friend who carried a holstered Glock on the top tube
when he did his winter training in New Mexico. I don't think the ever
pulled it, but to feel like you needed it...

Marsh Jones
Minnesota


J999w wrote:
Okay, so not exactly a skiing question, but more related to training.

Anyone here carry pepper spray when out training, especially cycling? Not so
much for dogs ... I'll either spray some Gatorade on them or wack them with my
pump ... but more for when encountering rowdy kids just starting their summer
vacation, have had a few too many cans of beer, and getting just a little too
abusive while half hanging out of the window of their friend's car. (I usually
feel pretty safe when I have my ski poles in my hands with nice sharp carbide
tips!).

Had such an encounter tonight while out riding about 10:30pm (sometimes 'ya
gotta ride whenever you can). Now, I'm a big guy (6'5" and 200+ lbs) and
normally don't get harrassed, but every once and a while I come across some
buzzed social bottom feeder feeling brave and is ready to take on the 'faggy
bicyclist'. My normal reaction is to flip them the finger, or give them a
stream of expletives and some suggestions of physical impossible feats ...
tonight's encounter ended with a few words and the finger. but I fear that some
hot night, when I'm out riding, I'll come across someone looking for a fight
and I'm thinking that the full water bottle I launch, zinging off their car
will just entice them more and I'm going to need an edge (something legal) as
they corner me into the curb (I know, I know ... hop it!).

Anyone carry pepper spray? Ever use it? What kind?

Thanks.

jw
Milwaukee
p.s. normally, I'll try to avoid confrontation, but after getting honked,
chopped, and just about run down over the coarse of a workout, I tend to loose
my patience. :^]

Crazy stuff happens out there.

Well that's just it. It could be some guy having a bad week deciding to take it
out on you, or some rowdy kids out for some hell raising, but I just want to be
one step ahead of 'em. Whether you're on your bike, skates, or roller skis,
you stand out as different and that's enough, sometimes, to make you the
target.

jw
Milwaukee

By far the best safety weapon, pound for pound, is a cell phone.

Marsh Jones wrote
I started carrying a cell phone with the little camera.

Escalating confrontations is generally a real bad idea. I spend lots of
time skating, rollerskiing, bicycling out on the roads where I'm vulnerable
to harrassment.

Escalation is bad because your situation is fundentally unequal to the
harassers.
You have:
- - fundamental limits on how much armament you can carry.
- - only a few favorite suitable roads for your activity.
- - a need to be in those places at specific days and times each week.
They can:
- - pull out heavier armament from the trunk of their car, or go home for
more and come back for you
- - play their power games anywhere with lots of different targets if they
are deprived of you
- - choose the time and place of their revenge

My techniques:
- - pre-emptive friendliness: I try to wave to every car driver that comes
past me in either direction.
- - post-emptive friendliness: in response to unfriendly words, wave again.
The more I interact with the car drivers in a friendly way, the more fun I
have out skating and rollerskiing.

Ken

I think Ken speaks with great wisdom (below).
Nothing bores antagonistic people faster than a friendly response.
Rob Bradlee

--- Ken Roberts wrote:
By far the best safety weapon, pound for pound, is a cell phone.

Marsh Jones wrote
I started carrying a cell phone with the little camera.

Escalating confrontations is generally a real bad idea. I spend lots
of
time skating, rollerskiing, bicycling out on the roads where I'm
vulnerable
to harrassment.

Escalation is bad because your situation is fundentally unequal to
the
harassers.
You have:
- - fundamental limits on how much armament you can carry.
- - only a few favorite suitable roads for your activity.
- - a need to be in those places at specific days and times each
week.
They can:
- - pull out heavier armament from the trunk of their car, or go home
for
more and come back for you
- - play their power games anywhere with lots of different targets if
they
are deprived of you
- - choose the time and place of their revenge

My techniques:
- - pre-emptive friendliness: I try to wave to every car driver that
comes
past me in either direction.
- - post-emptive friendliness: in response to unfriendly words, wave
again.
The more I interact with the car drivers in a friendly way, the more
fun I
have out skating and rollerskiing.

Ken









=====
Rob Bradlee
Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training

My cycling team in college had a policy that when a car was beeping,
honking, and giving the finger, all dozen of us would wave and smile
and say ,"Hi!"

That would make them so mad they would swallow their tongues in a
seizure of rage. And then noone can call you the bad guy.

I have however been hit by a broomhandle held out of a car that was
driving around 50 when I was riding. And I've had bottlerockets shot
at me by the cars! Beer bottles have missed my noggin by about six
inches from moving cars. All very nice indictments of the human race
as fancy chimps.

Shmo

Ever got harrassed? Never happened to me and never heard anything about it.
Maybe you should consider moving to a less violent place.
Dogs? Just bark louder than they do. Scares the hell out of them!

The only thing we really have to watch for are careless drivers. They are
usually easy to spot: 90% of them wear a hat and the other 10% a baseball
cap backwards. Pepper spray would be useless with that kind of people;
besides, it is illegal to possess some here (i.e. Quebec).

JMC

"J999w" wrote in message
...
Anyone here carry pepper spray when out training, especially cycling? Not
so
much for dogs ... I'll either spray some Gatorade on them or wack them
with my
pump ... but more for when encountering rowdy kids just starting their
summer
vacation, have had a few too many cans of beer, and getting just a little
too
abusive while half hanging out of the window of their friend's car. (I
usually
feel pretty safe when I have my ski poles in my hands with nice sharp
carbide
tips!).