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#11
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Kelowna fires
Gene, you're totally wrong. Read some of my other posts on this
subject. You're a Berkely liberal from the fringe days of the 60s aren't you? Your view is obviously tainted. You can put a liberal/socialist spin on anything and you have managed to do it in this instance. Cut taxes, increase consumer purchasing power and investment. The founding fathers would have kissed your view of taxation goodbye. Maybe another tea party. Hey, I'm not a trust funder. I have to earn what I make. in fact, I get up every day and go out into the world with no pay guarantee. It's called commission sales. That's Straight commission. I had to build up a territory by going to work everyday. Unlike you, I know what the working people of the U.S. go through on a daily basis. I'm there first hand getting it from the people I deal with everyday. The majority of this newsgroup likely gets their understanding of the working person from the liberal media. Get out of your cloistered liberal existence and experience what really goes on in the world. I mean that to most everyone on this newsgroup. Jay Tegeder "I faders spar for framtids segrar" Gene Goldenfeld wrote in message ... Jay Tegeder wrote: Now, let's talk about the tax cuts by the Feds which so concern you. They are not tax cuts. Repeat, they are not tax cuts. They, like here in Minnesota, are just reductions in the spending increases. Repeat, Actually, no, seen over a few years the recent reductions in federal taxes are shifts in taxation from the federal government to the states and localities. I mean, someone has to pay for education, roads, parks, public health, welfare, etc. The question is how much will actually get shifted. Bush and his conservative advisors/supporters hope that the end result of federal tax cuts will not only be political benefit for themselves, but an overall effect of cutting social and societal (education, roads, etc.) expenditurs and programs. This is both ideological and economic (where ideology comes from) - in a capitalist system all government expenditures come out of business profits, however they derive to the gov't. Bush & Co. represent corporate America with a vengeance, with a view akin to that which dominated American political life in the late 19th/early 20th century. They also know that it's much harder to raise taxes at a local level, and such a battle will have to be fought over and over at each of the 50 states and numerous localities, where big business money has historically had much more influence. should someone who earns more have to pay a higher percentage of his income in taxes than someone who makes less. That doesn't sound very American to me. Should someone who makes 21,000 per year be taxed at a higher rate than someone who makes 20,000? Where do you draw the line Jim? Who decides in your Howard Dean Socailist Utopia? The people who make the most money create a lot more jobs than those who don't. Is that good or bad in your world? Excuse me, Jay, but the America you reside in has had a *progressive* income tax system for quite a long time, first during and after the Civil War, and then continuously from around 1913, when the 16th Amendment to the Constitution allowing income taxes was ratified. In the last decade or two, with the dominance of conservative economic and social policies, the degree of prgrogressiveness has been considerably chipped away at, but even now some pay 15% and some pay 28 or 35% or whatever it is. Now, here's the kicker. If, as you say, government expenditures have been going up relative to inflation, and the absolute and deduction-based tax rates for the wealthier sections of the population have gone down, then it would follow that the relative tax burden has shifted even more downward into the middle and lower classes (that's definitely the case for user taxes). If that's true, then your argument about what's "American" and not is particularly self-defeating, since you are just one more of us on the short end of the equation. To highlight this even more, if you check income stats for the US, you'll find that except for a little blip at the end of the 90s, average individual income has been falling steadily on an inflation-adjusted basis since the early 1970s. Depending on family configurations, that has meant relatively less and less money to pay more taxes - for you, me, the others here, and most of the rest of the population. Bringing it back to this newsgroup, less money left to buy cross country skis and support ski resorts (something to consider in terms of industry trends). Note: This has been one of the most puzzling subject diversions I've ever seen on rsn. We're a long way from Kelowna and the plight of Scott and his neigbors. I mean, forest fires predate claims about global warming. Gene |
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#12
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Kelowna fires
funder. I have to earn what I make. in fact, I get up every day and go out into the world with no pay guarantee. It's called commission sales. That's Straight commission. I had to build up a territory by going to work everyday. Unlike you, I know what the working people of the U.S. go through on a daily basis. I'm there first hand getting it from the people I deal with everyday. The majority of this newsgroup likely gets their understanding of the working person from the liberal media. Get out of your cloistered liberal existence and experience what really goes on in the world. I mean that to most everyone on this newsgroup. Okay, Jay, that's about enough. If you want to engage in political rants find a political newsgroup. I hustle my butt to find my own work too, and yet manage to stay a liberal. But I do not want to argue politics in this newsgroup, and I certainly think that it entirely un-American to engage in ad hominem attacks on people of differing views. How about we all agree to keep the subject matter of our postings to skiing, and nothing but skiing. If someone throws in a side comment about global warming we will all politely ignore it. Okay? I ran a 17 mile trail race in NH today on a perfect New England late summer day. This race marks the end of trail racing season for me and the beginning of SERIOUS ski training. Rob Bradlee ===== Rob Bradlee Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training |
#13
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Kelowna fires
To get back to the original topic:-
The forest fire at Kelowna continues to expand towards the east. A weather front moved through bringing higher winds out of the west. This whipped the front of the fire into class 5 and 6 status with spot fires starting up to 1.5 km ahead of the fire front. They had to withdraw firefighters from the front for safety reasons, although they are still working to keep the fire from moving north down the mountain into south eastern parts of Kelowna and outlying communities. There are evacuation orders in place for those area and for Idabel Lake with is much further to the east. The news from the nordic skiing standpoint is that Idabel Lake is adjacent to Hydraulic Lake and the thermal map released this morning showed the fire was only about 3 to 4 kilometres from the west shore of Hydraulic Lake. The Nordic XC Ski Club has their lodge and trail system to the east of Hydraulic Lake. Hopefully they will be able to stop the fire at the lake and McCulloch Road, although it has previously jumped smaller logging roads. This afternoon there were six CL415 (Super Scooper) water bombers and a Martin Mars water bomber assisting the 20 or so helicopters that have been dropping water on the fire. There are also 650 firefighters and 200 pieces of heavy equipment building fire guards on the flanks of the fire and working on spot fires. None of this has any significant effect when the wind comes up. Unfortunately the weather front did not bring any significant amount of rain. The Nordic Club has some nice trails and have recently upgraded their lodge. Let's all hope they have a place to ski this winter. Scott Elliot http://www3.telus.net/selliot/ |
#14
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Kelowna fires
Jay Tegeder wrote:
.. Plus, you're making me fight a two front war... I hate to do that... More than two fronts, if you can still count. Brian, who decides what car or vehicle is the right size? There are SUVs out there that get better mileage than Jim Farrell's Mitsubishi Diamante. I I get 24 MPG (the new diamantes advertise only 18, now, progress in your opinion, surely). What SUV claims anything close to that? As for Jim Farrell, a good guy by the way, I can't let him get away with the stuff he spews without answering. You mean attacking, you pitbull. |
#15
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Kelowna fires
Jay Tegeder wrote:
I have to disagree. What caused the disappearing winters of the 1890s and 1930s? Everything goes in cycles regarding the weather. I predict a big winter for the midwest by the way... Remember the hole in the Ozone? It closed back up. They're rethinking the Ozone hole. That could be a natural cycle too. Now you're an expert climatologist, in addition to an economist, soothsayer and expert on energy issues? You don't know the difference between the ozone hole and global warming, I imagine. The more you write the worse your case gets. CFC's destroyed the much of the O3 through catalisis to begin climatology 101. If you recall, CFC's were removed from production in the 80's. Gee, I wonder if that helped a little? The greenhouse effect is very real (otherwise nighttime would bring on inhospitable cold.) Too much of this good thing is what we risk by continuing to pump more and more CO2 and other greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere. No one truly knows the limit of sustainability this planet can take. But we do know there is now 300% more CO2 in the atmosphere than ever has been for a million yearas. No one knows for sure if the change will be sudden and catastrophic (positive feedback)or gradual and chronic. But the changes will come. Why mess with a good thing. Earth is our only home. Can you improve it with change of destroy it? |
#16
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Kelowna fires
Dear Mssrs. Tegeder, Farrell, Goldenfeld, and whomever else has
responded to this thread: Please stop. Take your arguments to a more appropriate newsgroup, or respond to each other via private e-mail. The vast majority of us here do not care to "listen in" on your political rants, especially as un-friendly as you have made them (yes, I'm making a very educated guess that I am in the majority). It's boring enough that we have to read about what parts you put on your bikes, or what incredible workout you did yesterday. Please think about what you are posting to the world in a cross country skiing newsgroup. Thank you, Mark (Jay Tegeder) wrote in message . com... It would be nice if someone was on my side once in awhile. However, I think a lot of people who think like me are afraid to speak up because of the ridicule they might get from people who don't understand the whole picture. |
#17
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Kelowna fires
Jay Tegeder wrote:
It would be nice if someone was on my side once in awhile. However, I think a lot of people who think like me are afraid to speak up because of the ridicule they might get from people who don't understand the whole picture. I think you use a rather 'liberal' definition of the word 'think.' You repeat idiocies from people who tell you things you like to hear. Just tune into your favorite hate radio station and there are a plethora of ignoramuses regurgitating the same tired out crap you are repeating here. It ain't a liberal media in this country, quiet the contrary. Only a completely pap swallowing non thinker could repeat the lie you find over and over again in your so called liberal media. Where else did the non original thinker get this idea if not from the generally conservative media. There is nothing new original nor creative about what you write. You didn't understand the first thing about the logical fallacies you engage in because you are unable to intellectually or honestly look at the self contradictory BS you parrot. The only thing that stops other stupid conservatives from jumping into the fray with you is an inability to either put a sentence together or to support your screed (even if some might agree with your general agenda and be a hell of a lot smarter than we are, they couldn't support your specific idiocy, even in the name of propping up a floundering fellow conservative.) You are alone simply because you have made your bed and must lie in it. Take a break from this, let it all pass, like water off a duck's back. Pretend a little humility when you engage others in person or in he NG, and think about the offensiveness of what you write. Don't marginalise Gene, don't try to tell me about science, or my personal politics, and don't dismiss judgement of the fallacies that are the bread and butter of your 'arguments.' There is no logic in any of it. Try another radio station once in a while, expand your horizons. Read a little even, you might just learn something if you can quiet your ever ready self defeating comebacks. |
#18
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Kelowna fires
Let's kill this off topic ramble right now. If you have the balls to
discuss these things over email or in person, without running off and hiding like the last time you got over your head with me I am willing, but you've gone a little too far, below the belt, once again on this NG. Show an ability to give and take (rather than firing a broadside and then cutting off all discussion --- a real chicken**** way of going about things if you ask me.) You have my address. I have forgotten (at your request) your super sectret hidden address you use to hide from those you have (admittedly) flamed on numerous newsgroups. Misrepresentation and ad hominem attacks seem to be well in keeping with the Roves and Ashcrofts you likely admire. I'll have to call you on your attacks and lies, but spare the newsgroup the foolishness of a public re reply. I don't even care for your empty apologies anymore. Unforgivable, are your excesses. |
#20
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Kelowna fires
quote who= Jay Tegeder /:
Gene, you're totally wrong. Read some of my other posts on this subject. You're a Berkely liberal from the fringe days of the 60s aren't you? Your view is obviously tainted. You can put a liberal/socialist spin on anything and you have managed to do it in this instance. That's two: http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...d-hominem.html J -- Justin F. Knotzke http://www.shampoo.ca |
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