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Hydration Pack in the Back Country



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 10th 03, 08:40 PM
John Red-Horse
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In article ,
Idontwantspam@net wrote:
Depends a bit on where you are, and if you have other water
containers.


How does it depend? In particular, how does it depend in a way that
relates to the OP's question?...

In northern New England, while many days are above zero F, there are
also some days in the mountains where the daytime high barely gets
above zero. I have been out on days of -30F (granted not that common).

Water containers of all types, even insulated, can freeze solid.


....since, in light of that question, your entire response seems to be
completely irrelevant.

cheers,
john
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  #12  
Old October 10th 03, 09:42 PM
Gary S.
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:40:52 +0000 (UTC), (John
Red-Horse) wrote:

In article ,
Idontwantspam@net wrote:
Depends a bit on where you are, and if you have other water
containers.

How does it depend? In particular, how does it depend in a way that
relates to the OP's question?...

One response basically said that water containers freezing in winter
was a minor problem. I was responding to say that in other locations,
where it gets colder than 20F, it is a problem.

I have had Nalgene bottles freeze up in the pocket of the jecet I was
wearing. Most typically start the day with hot water in Nalgene, put
it in an insulated shell, upside down, so that freezing is not too big
a problem.

In northern New England, while many days are above zero F, there are
also some days in the mountains where the daytime high barely gets
above zero. I have been out on days of -30F (granted not that common).

Water containers of all types, even insulated, can freeze solid.

...since, in light of that question, your entire response seems to be
completely irrelevant.

No, I am just saying that you need to get advice and equipment
appropriate for the conditions you will see. I gave examples to show
that in SOME places where people BC ski or hike, much more care needs
to be given to preventing water bottle freezing.

Most of the winter hikers I know do not consider the hydration
bladders a good choice for winter use, and certainly not as an only
water container. The newer insulated ones, and the blowback thing are
a good start, but are not 100%.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
  #13  
Old October 10th 03, 10:30 PM
Vinnie
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Gary apparently shares the opinion of the guides I had on a Rainier climb,
but that I totally disagree with...
Most of the winter hikers I know do not consider the hydration
bladders a good choice for winter use


Specially when considering that I have used them for over 10 years and only
had one outing where freezing tubes prevented me from having instantaneous
hydration on demand, on the go. (I have experienced various levels of
freeze problems on other outings, but have been able to easily overcome
them). Since I went to the Camel Back insulated tube/bite-valve with cover I
have NEVER had flow-preventing freezing, along with using the insulated
tube, I am careful to place the bladder against my back (outlet valve toward
my warm body) and make sure to replace the cover on the bite valve after
each use.

I mostly ski in Colorado, frequently well above 12,000 feet, and I'm here to
tell you that it gets COLD up there. I don't spend a lot of time
determining the exact outdoor temperature and calculating wind-chill, but
have seen nalgene water bottles freeze nearly solid in less than 4 hours
while continuously using my camel-back for primary hydration with minimal
problems (forget to blow back or replace the bite-valve cover after
drinking).

My opinion, and I think I have enough direct experience with these items to
opine, is that water bladders are an EXCELLENT choice for back-country
skiers/winter hikers as long as they consider their location (am I in the
God-forsaken frozen northeast in January or am I cruising in the Sierras in
the springtime?) And they also have some method of melting water if freezing
does become an issue and have alternate hydration available (insulated water
bottle stuffed in the pack too, something with a higher freezing temp than
water like Gatorade or juice). The performance boost that I personally
experience from having a hydration bladder which helps me maintain proper
hydration, even on grueling days, far outweighs any small inconvenience
related to freezing issues on the brutally cold days/portions of the day.

Any time you are camping overnight and there is a likelihood of freezing
temperatures, you should drain your hydration bladder and plan on melting
water the next morning to fill it again. If the temperatures are well below
freezing and you stop for lunch or to putz around on some ice, cliffs, rocks
or whatever, you should either keep your hydration bladder inside your coat
or drain it.

And this portion of Gary's post I completely agree with:
and certainly not as an only
water container.

And this one:
The newer insulated ones, and the blowback thing are
a good start, but are not 100%.


I have seen water bladders that weren't properly sealed (one of my buddies
insists on buying those stupid platypus bladders that require folding over
and crimping to seal, he's flooded his pack more times than I can count,
hope they're really cheap, cause in my experience they massively suck!
Specially since he ends up draining my backup water/fluid to replace what he
lost).

Vinnie


"Gary S." Idontwantspam@net wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:40:52 +0000 (UTC), (John
Red-Horse) wrote:

In article ,
Idontwantspam@net wrote:
Depends a bit on where you are, and if you have other water
containers.

How does it depend? In particular, how does it depend in a way that
relates to the OP's question?...

One response basically said that water containers freezing in winter
was a minor problem. I was responding to say that in other locations,
where it gets colder than 20F, it is a problem.

I have had Nalgene bottles freeze up in the pocket of the jecet I was
wearing. Most typically start the day with hot water in Nalgene, put
it in an insulated shell, upside down, so that freezing is not too big
a problem.

In northern New England, while many days are above zero F, there are
also some days in the mountains where the daytime high barely gets
above zero. I have been out on days of -30F (granted not that common).

Water containers of all types, even insulated, can freeze solid.

...since, in light of that question, your entire response seems to be
completely irrelevant.

No, I am just saying that you need to get advice and equipment
appropriate for the conditions you will see. I gave examples to show
that in SOME places where people BC ski or hike, much more care needs
to be given to preventing water bottle freezing.

Most of the winter hikers I know do not consider the hydration
bladders a good choice for winter use, and certainly not as an only
water container. The newer insulated ones, and the blowback thing are
a good start, but are not 100%.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom



  #14  
Old October 13th 03, 03:26 PM
John Red-Horse
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In article ,
Idontwantspam@net wrote:

One response basically said that water containers freezing in winter
was a minor problem. I was responding to say that in other locations,
where it gets colder than 20F, it is a problem.


In that case, you are wrong. I have skied in temps well below that; I
always ski with a Camelbak brand bladder; I never take Nalgene; I *never*
have had catastrophic problems with hydration packs.

I have had Nalgene bottles freeze up in the pocket of the jecet I was
wearing. Most typically start the day with hot water in Nalgene, put
it in an insulated shell, upside down, so that freezing is not too big
a problem.

In northern New England, while many days are above zero F, there are
also some days in the mountains where the daytime high barely gets
above zero. I have been out on days of -30F (granted not that common).

Water containers of all types, even insulated, can freeze solid.


No, I am just saying that you need to get advice and equipment
appropriate for the conditions you will see. I gave examples to show
that in SOME places where people BC ski or hike, much more care needs
to be given to preventing water bottle freezing.


The original poster stated the following:

"I ski in the Sierra Nevada mountains, where it doesn't get super cold."

Now, tell me again, how are your experiences at -30f relevant?

Most of the winter hikers I know do not consider the hydration
bladders a good choice for winter use, and certainly not as an only
water container. The newer insulated ones, and the blowback thing are
a good start, but are not 100%.


And I stated how to mitigate other problems.

If one were being conservative for a multi-day hike, they would carry a
patch kit, an extra bite valve, and, some duct tape. An empty bottle of
some sort does seem to be a good idea.

For single-day excursions, I haven't taken these, but perhaps my
risk-aversion level is lower than yours.

Of course you're entitled to your opinions; but, from your answers here,
and from the perspective of having used hydration bladders in backcountry
skiing settings over the course of a number of years in geographical
regions that include the Sierra and the Rocky Mountains, I am stating that
your opinions on this matter aren't worth the electrons that were expended
in their broadcast. I think your number of days in the backcountry has
been limited due to risk of avalanches.

The original poster is left to sort through the mess.

john
  #15  
Old October 14th 03, 08:12 PM
Chris Webster
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above zero. I have been out on days of -30F (granted not that common).



Why??????????????

  #16  
Old October 14th 03, 08:15 PM
Chris Webster
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Any time you are camping overnight and there is a likelihood of freezing
temperatures, you should drain your hydration bladder and plan on melting
water the next morning to fill it again.



I just sleep with my water.

--Chris

  #17  
Old October 16th 03, 02:33 AM
Arco
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The original poster is left to sort through the mess.



I'm the original poster.

I'm planning to take my camelbak bladder out with me this winter.

Thanks everyone for your valuable feedback and discussion!

- Arco

  #18  
Old October 17th 03, 12:03 AM
Vinnie
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One leaky bottle will cure you of that...

Vinnie
"Chris Webster" wrote in message
...

Any time you are camping overnight and there is a likelihood of freezing
temperatures, you should drain your hydration bladder and plan on

melting
water the next morning to fill it again.



I just sleep with my water.

--Chris



 




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